David Chilton
(1951–1997)
M.Div. PhD.

Modern Preterist Until Final Year of His Life, When He Named Himself Full Preterist -- Although He believed in Future Fulfillment of "Paradise Mandate", etc.

"the hottest 'theological property' in the West"
(North, "Epilogue," Paradise Restored, p.334n7)

Reconstructionist (Partial Preterist) Champion | Stroke left him brain dead for a while | Preached a Full Preterist message for the remainder of his life | Passed on a few years later at 42 of heart failure | Perhaps most important Pret of 20th Century

Ecclesiastical Megalomania "After this speech, David Chilton subsequently suffered a heart attack from which he initially recovered and eventually died. One wonders if the terror and desperation he felt in the Tyler Church contributed to his health problems. After his heart attack, Chilton and his lecture were viciously attacked by Gary North, the chief financier of the Tyler Church, both publicly and privately. This editor was threatened in writing with "destruction" by North for publicizing Chilton’s speech. Several former members of the Tyler Church contacted the editor after we published this Review, saying that Chilton had not told the half of it. They were still frightened of the leaders of the Tyler Church years after they had left."

"Without exception, every event foretold by the Biblical prophets was fulfilled within that generation, as Jesus said."

David Chilton Study Archive | Email Exchanges with David Chilton | Gautier on Chilton | What's Really Wrong With Public Schools? | Days of Vengeance | Días de Retribución | Дни на въздаяние | Paradise Restored | The Great Tribulation | More Books By David Chilton

"Examples could be multiplied, in every field. The whole rise of Western Civilization—science and technology, medicine, the arts, constitutionalism, the jury system, free enterprise, literacy, increasing productivity, a rising standard of living, the high status of women—is attributable to one major fact: the West has been transformed by Christianity. True, the transformation is not yet complete. There are many battles ahead. But the point is that, even in what is still largely an early Christian civilization, God has showered us with blessings." (Paradise Restored)

"When I received word of David Chilton's sudden homegoing, my first thought was of profound sadness and loss. I thought of his wonderful family and how all the rest of us will miss his innate optimism, unflagging encouragement, and great foresight. I thought of all the books that might have been but now will never be. But after reviewing the rich legacy he has left us, my heart has been lifted. I have finally begun to comprehend great solace in knowing that "he being dead yet speaketh." 

(On the Significance of A.D.70)
"Scripture connects as one theological Event - the Advent - Christ’s birth, life, resurrection, ascension, the outpouring of His Spirit upon the Church in A.D. 30, and the outpouring of His wrath upon Israel in the Holocaust of A.D. 66-70." (David Chilton, The Days of Vengeance, p. 285)

"...the Bible speaks of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Church and the destruction of Israel as being the same event, for they were intimately connected theologically. The prophet Joel foretold both the Day of Pentecost and the destruction of Jerusalem in one breath." (David Chilton, The Great Tribulation, p. 21)

The Olivet Discourse is not about the Second Coming of Christ. It is a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70." (quoted by Ice)

(On The Olivet Discourse)
"The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21).. is a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70" (Paradise Restored, p. 224)

(On Matthew 24:13)
"We must remember that "the end" in this passage is not the end of the world, but rather the end of the age, the end of the Temple, the sacrificial system, the covenant nation of Israel, and the last remnants of the pre-Christian era." (Days of Vengeance, p. 89)

(On Matthew 24:34 and the "Generation Means Race" Theory)
"Some have sought to get around the force of this text by saying that the word generation here really means race, and that Jesus was simply saying that the Jewish race would not die out until all these things took place. Is that true? I challenge you: Get out your concordance and look up every New Testament occurrence of the word generation (in Greek, genea) and see if it ever means 'race' in any other context. Here are all the references for the Gospels: Matthew 1:17; 11:16; 12:39, 41, 42, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36; 24:34; Mark 8:12, 38; 9:19; 13:30; Luke 1:48, 50; 7:31; 9:41; 11:29, 30, 31, 32, 50, 51; 18:8; 17:25; 21:32. Not one of these references is speaking of the entire Jewish race over thousands of years; all use the word in its normal sense of the sum total of those living at the same time. It always refers to contemporaries. (In fact, those who say it means "race" tend to acknowledge this fact, but explain that the word suddenly changes its meaning when Jesus uses it in Matthew 24! We can smile at such a transparent error, but we should also remember that this is very serious. We are dealing with the Word of the living God.)." (The Great Tribulation, p. 3)

(On the Dating of Revelation)
“John emphasizes his anticipation of the soon occurrences of his prophecy by strategic placement of these time references. He places his boldest time statements in both the introduction and conclusion to Revelation. It is remarkable that so many recent commentators have missed it literally coming and going! The statement of expectancy is found three times in the first chapter – twice in the first three verses: Revelation 1:1,3,19. The same idea is found four times in his concluding remarks: Revelation 22:6,7,12,20. It is as if John carefully bracketed the entire work to avoid any confusion.” (The Beast of Revelation; Tyler, TX; ICE, 1982; p. 21-22).

“Think of it: If these words in these verses do not indicate that John expected the events to occur soon, what words could John have used to express such? How could he have said it more plainly?” (The Beast of Revelation; Tyler, TX; ICE, 1982; p. 24).

(On The Subject Matter of Revelation)
"(The Book of Revelation) is about the destruction of Israel and Christ’s victory over His enemies in the establishment of the New Covenant Temple.  In fact, as we shall see, the word coming as used in the Book of Revelation never refers to the Second Coming.  Revelation prophesies the judgment of God on apostate Israel; and while it does briefly point to events beyond its immediate concerns, that is done merely as a “wrap-up,” to show that the ungodly will never prevail against Christ’s Kingdom.  But the main focus of Revelation is upon events which were soon to take place."  (Days of Vengeance, p. 43)

(On Rev 6:15-17) “This passage is not speaking of the End of the World, but the End of Israel in A.D.70.” (p. 148).

(On Revelation 11:15)
"At this point in history God’s plan is made apparent: He has placed Jews and Gentiles on equal footing in the Covenant. The destruction of apostate Israel and the Temple revealed that God had created a new nation, a new Temple, as Jesus prophesied to the Jewish leaders: ‘Therefore I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it’ (Matt.21:43). Thus the Kingdom of God, the ‘Fifth Kingdom’ prophesied in Daniel 2, becomes universalized, as the heavenly choir sings: ‘The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.’"(Days of Vengeance: p.287-288)

(On the Number of the Beast)
The unexpected element in the computation was that it had to be worked out in Hebrew, a language that at least some members of the churches would know. His readers would have guessed by now that he was speaking of Nero, and those who understood Hebrew probably grasped it instantly. The numerical values of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (Nero Caesar) are:

As I mentioned earlier, the point is not that Nero’s name is the primary identification of 666. The point is, instead, what the number meant to the churches. St. John’s Biblically informed readers will have already recognized many clear indications of the Beast’s identity as Rome (indeed, they already knew this from reading the Book of Daniel). Now Nero has arrived on the scene as the first great persecutor of the Church, the embodi-ment of the "666-ness" of the Empire, and – Lo and behold! – his very name spells out 666. It is significant that "all the earliest Christian writers on the Apocalypse, from Irenaeus down to Victorious of Pettau and Commodian in the fourth, and Andreas in the fifth, and St. Beatus in the eighth century, connect Nero, or some Roman em-peror, with the Apocalyptic Beast ." There should be no reasonable doubt about this identification. St. John was writing to first-century Christians, warning them of things that were "shortly" to take place. They were engaged in the most crucial battle of history, against the Dragon and the evil Empire which he possessed. The purpose of the Revelation was to comfort the Church with the assurance that God was in control, so that even the awesome might of the Dragon and the Beast would not stand before the armies of Jesus Christ. Christ was wounded in His heel on Friday, the sixth day, the Day of the Beast – yet that is the day He crushed the Dragon’s head. At his most powerful, St. John says, the Beast is just a six, or a series of sixes; never a seven. His plans of world dominion will never be fulfilled, and the Church will overcome through her Lord Jesus, the 888, who conquered on the Eighth Day.".

It is charged by some that Neron Kesar is merely a convenient "misspelling" of Nero’s name in Hebrew. This objection overlooks the fact that before the modern introduction of dictionaries the world was simply not as concerned as we are about uniformity in the spelling of names. Alternate spellings were common (e.g. "Joram" and "Jehoram" in the Old Testament), especially in the transliteration of words into a foreign tongue. But the allegation of misspelling is wholly wrong anyway. The form Neron Kesar (1) is the linguistically "correct" Hebrew form, (2) is the form found in the Talmud and other rabbinical writings, and (3) was used by Hebrews in the first century, as archaeological evidence has shown. As F. W. Farrar observed, "the Jewish Christian would have tried the name as he thought of the name-that is in Hebrew letters. And the moment he did this the secret stood revealed. No Jew ever thought of Nero except as ‘Neron Kesar,’ and this gives at once . . . 666" (The Early Days of Christianity, Chicago and New York: Belford, Clarke& Co., 1882, p. 540). Of some related interest is the fact that if Nero’s name is written without the final n (i.e., the way it would occur to a Gentile to spell it in Hebrew), it yields the number 616 — which is exactly the variant reading in a few New Testament manuscripts. The most reasonable explanation for this variant is that it arose from the confusion over the final n."

(On the "Last Days")
"The period spoken of in the Bible as 'the last days' (or 'last times' or 'last hour') is the period between Christ's birth and the destruction of Jerusalem."  (Paradise Restored, TX: Dominion Press, 1985, p. 115)

"The fact is that every time Scripture uses the term "last days" (and similar expressions) it means, not the end of the physical universe, but the period from AD 30 to AD 70 - the period during which the Apostles were preaching and writing, the "last days" of Old Covenant Israel before it was forever destroyed in the destruction of the Temple (and consequently the annihilation of the Old Covenant sacrificial system).  (American Vision's Biblical Worldview Magazine, Sept. 1996)
 

(Comparison of the Trumpet Judgments of Revelation and Exodus)
"The Seventh Trumpet was the sign that "there shall be no more delay" (cf. 10:6-7). Time has run out; wrath to the utmost has now come upon Israel. From this point on, St. John abandons the language and imagery of warning, concentrating wholly on the message of Jerusalem’s impending destruction. As he describes the City’s doom, he extends and intensifies the Exodus imagery that has already been so pervasive throughout the prophecy. Again he mentions "the Great City" (16:19), reminding his readers of a previous reference: "the Great City, which Spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified" (11 :8). Jerusalem is called Sodom because of its sensual, luxurious apostasy (cf. Ezek. 16:49-50), and because it is devoted to total destruction as a whole burnt sacrifice (Gen. 19:24-28; Deut. 13:12-18). But St. John’s more usual metaphors for the Great City are taken from the Exodus pattern: Jerusalem is not only Egypt, but also the other enemies of Israel. He has shown us the Egyptian Dragon chasing the Woman into the wilderness (Chapter 12); a revived Balak and Balaam seeking to destroy God’s people by war and by seduction to idolatry (chapter 13); the sealed armies of the New Israel gathered on Mount Zion to celebrate the feasts (Chapter 14); and the saints standing in triumph at the "Red Sea," singing the Song of Moses (chapter 15). Now, in Chapter 16, seven judgments corresponding to the ten Egyptian Plagues are to be poured out on the Great City. There is also a marked correspondence between these Chalice-judgments and the Trumpet-judgments of Chapters 8-11. Because the Trumpets were essentially warnings, they took only a third of the Land; with the Chalices, the destruction is total.

(On Revelation 17:10)
"..they are seven kings; five have fallen: The first five Caesars were Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. This has been called into question by some, since, in a technical sense, the Empire began with Augustus, not Julius (cf. Tacitus, The Annals, i.1). Yet that was a technicality which, as far as the normal conversation and writing of the first century were concerned, was irrelevant. For all practical purposes, Julius Caesar was Emperor: He claimed the title imperator, and most early Roman, Christian, and Jewish writers count him as the first Emperor. Suetonius begins his Lives of the Twelve Caesars with Julius as the first Emperor, as does Dio Cassius in his Roman History. Book 5 of the Sibylline Oracles calls Julius "the first king: and 4 Ezra 12:15 speaks of Augustus as "the second" of the emperors. For our purposes, Josephus seems to provide the most convincing testimony, since he wrote for both a Roman and a Jewish audience, in the common parlance of the day. In his Antiquities of the Jews he clearly speaks of Augustus and Tiberius as the second and third emperors (xviii. ii.2), of Caligula as the fourth (xviii.vi.10), and of Julius as the first (xix. i.11). The most extensive discussion of all the evidence is in Moses Stuart, Commentary on the Apocalypse, two VOIS. (Andover: Allen, Merrill, and Wardwell, 1845), Vol. 2, pp. 445-52; cf. Isbon T. Beckwith, The Apocalypse of John: Studies in Introduction with an Exegetical and Critical Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, [1919] 1979), pp. 701f. (p. 436)

(On Revelation 17:17)
"The war between Christ and the Beast, culminating in the desolation of the Harlot, took place in the fulfillment of God’s announcements through His prophets. The curses of the Covenant (Deut. 28) were executed on Israel through the Beast and the ten horns. They were the instruments of God’s wrath, as Christ foretold in His discourse on the Mount of Olives. During  these horrifying ‘days of vengeance,’ He said, all things that were written would be fulfilled (Luke 21:22). Vision and prophecy would be sealed and completed in the destruction of the old world order (Dan. 9:24)." p.442

(On The Millennial Reign of Christ)
"One of the antichrists who afflicted the early church was Cerinthus, the leader of a first-century Judaistic cult. Regarded by the Church Fathers as "the Arch-heretic," and identified as one of the "false apostles" who opposed Paul, Cerinthus was a Jew who joined the Church and began drawing Christians away from the orthodox faith. He taught that a lesser deity, and not the true God, had created the world (holding, with the Gnostics, that God was much too "spiritual" to be concerned with material reality). Logically, this meant also a denial of the Incarnation, since God would not take to Himself a physical body and truly human personality. And Cerinthus was consistent: he declared that Jesus had merely been an ordinary man, not born of a virgin; that "the Christ" (a heavenly spirit) had descended upon the man Jesus at His baptism (enabling Him to perform miracles), but then left Him again at the crucifixion. Cerinthus also advocated a doctrine of justification by works — in particular, the absolute necessity of observing the ceremonial ordinances of the Old Covenant in order to be saved.

Furthermore, Cerinthus was apparently the first to teach that the Second Coming would usher in a literal reign of Christ in Jerusalem for a thousand years. Although this was contrary to the apostolic teaching of the Kingdom, Cerinthus claimed that an angel had revealed this doctrine to him." (Chapter 12,Paradise Restored) 

(On Jerusalem=Harlot)
"It is perhaps this verse, more than any other, which has confused expositors into supposing, against all other evidence, that the Harlot is Rome.  If the City is Jerusalem, how can she be said to wield this kind of worldwide political power?  The answer is that Revelation is not a book about politics; it is a book about the Covenant.  Jerusalem did reign over the nation." (Days of Vengeance, p. 442)

LATER WORK WHEN CHILTON WAS A SELF-STYLED "FULL PRETERIST"
(even though he still expected prophecy to be fulfilled in the future)

David Chilton's Other Full Preterist Materials Are Here

WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID

John L. Bray
"..though I was not yet a full preterist myself at that time, I questioned [David Chilton] as to why he put the fulfillment of Matthew 25 at A.D.70 in one place, but in our future in another place." "Biblical Perspectives," 10/14/2002

Kenneth L. Gentry
"I am not the only one promoting Revelation studies from a non-dispensational, pro-preterist perspective. David Chilton’s Days of Vengeance (despite some flights of fancy, use of astrology, and high liturgy) is an extremely insightful commentary. Baker Book House republished The Message from Patmos (1921, 1989), written by Gordon Clark’s father, David Clark." (Revelation: Four Views Reviewed)

Gary North
"I would suggest that we not encourage (David Chilton's) heresy by interacting with him on this matter on this or any other forum.  It is now a matter of Church discipline, assuming that he is under any." (North on Chilton)

"We can and should pray for the restoration of his mind, but to debate with him publicly will almost certainly drive him deeper into this heresy. He will feel compelled to defend himself in public. Let him go in peace. It is not our God-given task to confront him at this point. That is for his local church to do."  (North on Chilton)

George Grant
"David Chilton was the most naturally gifted writer I have ever met. He could diffuse fierce controversies with his ready wit and uncommon grace. He could untangle the knotted logic of even the most obscure argument with stunning alacrity and crystalline clarity.

His first book, Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators, is a biblical response to the "Christian Socialism" of Ron Sider and his "Evangelical Left" kin--men like Tony Campolo, Tom Sine, and Jim Wallis. Besides being a pointed critique, it is an introduction to economics, an invigorating survey of Western politics, and a lively lesson in biblical theology.

Paradise Restored is an eschatological primer, dealing with all the controversies and questions of biblical prophecy, but it also delves into the broader issues of biblical interpretation and application. Besides introducing us to a rare sort of "optimillenialism," it reaffirms the incalculable riches of the Word of God.

The Days of Vengeance is Mr. Chilton's magnum opus. It is a monumental verse-by-verse and word-for-word commentary of Revelation. It deals with the entire prophetic repertoire of the church through the ages.

The Great Tribulation is a brief paperback treatment of one of the most troubling aspects of "End Times" teaching. Rarely does it ever resort to polemics. Instead, it presses forward its encouraging message with a refreshing scriptural verve and doctrinal fidelity. The first three pages alone are a model of gracious Reformed apologetics at its finest.

Mr. Chilton also wrote the best book ever written on the cultural crisis wrought by AIDS. Power in the Blood is the wisest, most compassionate, and most scriptural treatment of this difficult subject I have ever come across. Instead of merely dealing with the dire problems that have caused AIDS and the dire problems that AIDS has caused, the book portrays real-life solutions to those problems. It affirms the essence of the Gospel hope. It brings light and life to even the most dark and deadly of dilemmas. In some ways it is a perfect summation of Mr. Chilton's prevailing message: We can take heart because God is sovereign.

When I received word of David Chilton's sudden homegoing, my first thought was of profound sadness and loss. I thought of his wonderful family and how all the rest of us will miss his innate optimism, unflagging encouragement, and great foresight. I thought of all the books that might have been but now will never be. But after reviewing the rich legacy he has left us, my heart has been lifted. I have finally begun to comprehend great solace in knowing that "he being dead yet speaketh."  (Chilton left a rich legacy)

David Chilton - Was He in Sound Mind when Adopting Modern Preterism?

Vern Crisler
"Re: Chilton's "outburst."  On the old Reconstructionist
List he said he wouldn't participate on it if I was on the list.  He later emailed an apology to the list, then what he thought was a private one to me (explaining in it his changed views on eschatology)  -- but he mistakenly sent that email to the whole list, revealing his HP views earlier than he had wanted to, I guess.  It was then that Sandlin began questioning him, and Chilton started defending his HP views on the list.  North then stomped on him.  I had been recommending patience, due to Chilton's medical condition, but unfortunately, Chilton stopped talking to us after the North email, and a couple weeks later, Chilton passed away.

Dr. Gary North
"His [David Chilton's] heart attack disrupted his ability to think clearly. It distorted his judgment. From his public outburst against Vern Crisler -- for which he later repented, admitting that he cannot think straight these days -- until this self-burial of his pre-1994 writings, David Chilton has gone off the deep end. He has now become self-damaged goods delivered on the doorstep of Max King." (Eulogy)

Dennis M. Swanson
"David Chilton, “converted” to the HP position shortly before his death. However, Vern Crisler (error, it was Gary North), his publisher and long time associate, noted that before this conversion he had suffered his first heart attack and his friends noted that, “the resulting neurological trauma probably affected his judgment more than he realized.” Crisler also predicted the “spin” of the IPA as he stated, 'Chilton’s last minute conversion to heresy will be exploited by the remaining full-preterists, but they will only be exploiting a debilitated man’s eccentricities, not his healthy and mature judgments.' (An Examination of the International Preterist Association's Claims and Methodology)

George Grant
Chilton left a rich legacy

Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators, by David Chilton (ICE, ISBN 0-930464-04-4)
Paradise Restored, by David Chilton (Dominion Press, ISBN 0-930462-04-1)
The Days of Vengeance, by David Chilton (Dominion Press, ISBN 0-930462-02-2)
The Great Tribulation, by David Chilton, by David Chilton (Dominion Press, ISBN 0-930462-55-6)
Power in the Blood, by David Chilton (Wolgemuth & Hyatt, ISBN 0-943497-05-1)

David Chilton was the most naturally gifted writer I have ever met. He could diffuse fierce controversies with his ready wit and uncommon grace. He could untangle the knotted logic of even the most obscure argument with stunning alacrity and crystalline clarity.

His first book, Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators, is a biblical response to the "Christian Socialism" of Ron Sider and his "Evangelical Left" kin--men like Tony Campolo, Tom Sine, and Jim Wallis. Besides being a pointed critique, it is an introduction to economics, an invigorating survey of Western politics, and a lively lesson in biblical theology.

Paradise Restored is an eschatological primer, dealing with all the controversies and questions of biblical prophecy, but it also delves into the broader issues of biblical interpretation and application. Besides introducing us to a rare sort of "optimillenialism," it reaffirms the incalculable riches of the Word of God.

The Days of Vengeance is Mr. Chilton's magnum opus. It is a monumental verse-by-verse and word-for-word commentary of Revelation. It deals with the entire prophetic repertoire of the church through the ages.

The Great Tribulation is a brief paperback treatment of one of the most troubling aspects of "End Times" teaching. Rarely does it ever resort to polemics. Instead, it presses forward its encouraging message with a refreshing scriptural verve and doctrinal fidelity. The first three pages alone are a model of gracious Reformed apologetics at its finest.

Mr. Chilton also wrote the best book ever written on the cultural crisis wrought by AIDS. Power in the Blood is the wisest, most compassionate, and most scriptural treatment of this difficult subject I have ever come across. Instead of merely dealing with the dire problems that have caused AIDS and the dire problems that AIDS has caused, the book portrays real-life solutions to those problems. It affirms the essence of the Gospel hope. It brings light and life to even the most dark and deadly of dilemmas. In some ways it is a perfect summation of Mr. Chilton's prevailing message: We can take heart because God is sovereign.

When I received word of David Chilton's sudden homegoing, my first thought was of profound sadness and loss. I thought of his wonderful family and how all the rest of us will miss his innate optimism, unflagging encouragement, and great foresight. I thought of all the books that might have been but now will never be. But after reviewing the rich legacy he has left us, my heart has been lifted. I have finally begun to comprehend great solace in knowing that "he being dead yet speaketh."

Date: 28 Feb 2006
Time: 04:37:37

Comments:

I am born again by the blood of Jesus my Lord! I am HAPPY to beheaded for my God and King. I dont support pretribulation or mid tribulation. I believe David Chilton's - postmillennialism.......why do christians fear "how they will die?"

Date: 06 May 2006
Time: 08:34:52

Comments:

The idea that the last days 'ended' with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD is the most unfractuous distortion of scripture I have ever heard.

When has 'peace and righteousness covered the earth as the waters cover the sea'?

When 'have the nations beat their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks and taught was NO MORE'?

When has God gathered his 'people from the north, south, east and west and planted them in the land He gave their forefathers NEVER to be removed again'?

When have the feet of Jesus stood upon the Mt of Olives and the 'Mt has split from east to the west'?
When have the moon and sun stopped shining and the tides ebbing and flowing - Jer 31 - so that Israel would not be a nation before God?

I could go on but the agony here is too much to endure.

Date: 30 Mar 2007
Time: 00:53:18

Comments:

throw the book of revelations out of the bible because it doesn't matter... we are all in our last days anyway because when you die, that will be your last day!

Date: 30 Jul 2007
Time: 13:57:19

Comments:

Christians suffer both individually and personally like no other time in western history, yet the learned debate the use of lithargy!! "Know all, do nothing" seems to be the subtle mantra. Christians are loosing their children/wives, inheritence and in short the Imago Deo. Still, we don't dare polish the brass on this 'sinking ship.' The key is this lunacy about not comming off the 'roof top' to go into the house...etc. God has given us His Kingdom, yet we want to hide on the snow covered slopes of Mt. Ararat to indulge ourselves with proof. What a worthless prison does pre-mil offer to the saints. At least the Roman Christians had each other in the time of distress. We make corporations to cling like the harlot to the state. Any problems with this state are suspect. You are the ones who are suspect, is the Lords view-and mine.