(Minor Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation
Oswald T. Allis
John A. Broadus
Wilhelm De Wette
Charles Homer Giblin
Johann von Hug
J, F, and Brown
Jean Le Clerc
Jack P. Lewis
Sir Isaac Newton
Dr. John Owen
William W. Patton
Rudolph E. Stier
(Major Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation
John L. Bray
Dr. John Brown
Francis X. Gumerlock
J. Marcellus Kik
Ovid Need, Jr
Milton S. Terry
(Virtually No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st
C. - Types Only ; Also Included are "Higher Critics" Not Associated With Any
Alan Patrick Boyd
John N. Darby
Charles G. Finney
J.P. Green Sr.
John N.D. Kelly
Dr. John Smith
George Fox |
Margaret Fell (Fox) |
PRETERIST UNIVERSALISM |
MODERN PRETERISM |
the "Preterist Rapture" view, the top tier of Christians were removed from
the earth in A.D.70
“The Christianity of Paul’s church was
wonderfully different in spirituality and Holy Ghost power from any
church since his time. There has been no power in the church these
eighteen centuries. As we read the history of this apostate
Christianity, we are appalled at the record. And herein we find an
unanswerable confirmation of our doctrine of Christ’s second coming.
Our doctrine shows that Christ’s second coming occurred at the siege of
Jerusalem, A.D. 70; that he then took the ‘saints’ of the primitive
church, aand the righteous dead of past ages to glory, and left the
unrighteous part of said church; and that this fact accounts for the
terrible record of Christianity during the ‘dark ages.’ At that time
Christ transferred His interest in the church which He founded, from
earth to heaven, and He is in no way responsible for the doings of the
apostate part of that church since” (The Truth, D.
Lothrop & Co., pg. 62-63).
NO RAPTURE REMOVAL
Silence Demands a Rapture "A rapture easily explains why no Christian after AD 70 mentioned the occurrence of the parousia (they weren't around to document it). So when a non-rapture preterist asserts that the rapture preterist has a "documentation problem," it leaves three fingers pointing back at him. The non-rapture preterist has three other events to find documentation for (parousia, resurrection and judgment). "
Five Views of the AD70 Rapture - "..Mr. Ian Harding of Australia. I see his refinement of "The Literal Rapture Expectation" view, which I have called simply "The Perfect Is Heaven" view, as the only preterist view of the rapture and related events that meets the full requirements of scripture."
Reply to Sam Frost's Analysis and Critique
of Taken to Heaven in AD70: Blessings Expected a the Parousia By Ian D.
Harding - "At
this point I think it is only fair, open and honest to urge the “heaven now”
preterists to return to sanity in their eschatological studies. If they
choose not to do so, they are laying themselves wide open for ridicule and
laughter from the entire futurist community and many preterists as well –
and even worse will do insurmountable damage to the preterist cause, and to
the credibility and honor of the Lord Jesus Christ, the very One whom
preterists strive to honor in virtue of their adopting the preterist
Word Games on the Rapture
- "The critic who stands against the physical rapture fights against a picture of saints
flying into the space. It is the next word game with the “air”. Why did not use the author the world “ouranos” here? Let us realize that a rapture does not require flying into sky. The spiritual-physical rapture does not require for a body to fly up. The body can simply
disappear and the invisible new uncorrupted body emanates to the Lord. "
What About the First Century Rapture? -
"About this time
Ed Stevens, after long study, wrote and published a book,
Expectations Demand a Rapture.
Walt Hibbard wrote one foreword for Ed’s book, we wrote the other. The book has met with intense opposition. Nevertheless, it is a breakthrough of major proportions. It’s not that Ed has discovered the rapture; that knowledge is as old as Scripture, but it is a major breakthrough in seeing and understanding what the first century Christians knew and understood. It’s a breakthrough that has the power to give fresh, accurate insight to the preterist movement."
"Evidence of the difficulty the
early church had in gaining a command of prophetic writings may be
seen in the idea of the “rapture.” The idea of a bodily rapture, a
notion strongly connected with a bodily resurrection, gained currency
in the early church. The apostle John alludes to this when he reports
that the fact he was to live until Christ’s return gave rise to the
belief he would be rapturously borne away and never die: “Peter
seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus
saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to
thee? Follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren,
that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He
shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that
to thee?” (Jno. 21:21-23) Having reported the popular misconception
among the early brethren, John disallows entirely that his remaining
alive until Jesus’ return meant he would not suffer death. In
another place, Jesus made the like announcement: “For the Son of man
shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he
shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you,
There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they
see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matt. 16:27, 28) Notice
that Jesus did not say death would cease at his coming. He merely said
some would not taste death before he came. Jesus would come
before they tasted death and only then would they die. Read
together, it is clear that John was to be one of those people. Thus,
the idea that Jesus’ coming entailed an end of physical existence in
which the righteous would be borne away to heavenly portals was simply
without basis and was not the teaching of Christ or the apostles.
There was to be no bodily rapture." (Resurrection
of the Flesh)
Response to Walt Hibbard's Support of Ian Harding's Book
spiritual condition is drastically different from those of the pre-Parousial
saints, based solely on the fact that our High Priest returned and brought
back with Him our completed atonement. Christ has made us whiter than
snow, blameless before the Lord, despite our shortcomings. What was a
promise / deposit for the pre-Parousial saints is a reality for us today --
even while living on Earth. Our going to Heaven when we die is BECAUSE
of these fulfilled promises. We don't look forward to them being
fulfilled in fullness when we die, or else we would never be qualified to
make it on our own, for we are unable to do so on our own. Indeed, if
we didn't have glory in fullness already, we couldn't go to Heaven at all,
for God cannot abide anything less than perfection. But our entrance
into Heaven is assured because we already have Eternal Life in fullness
Preterist Rapture Challenge - "If you believe that the Rapture took place in 70 A.D. at the alleged Second Advent of YAHSHUA, IMMANUEL, YAHWEH of Nazareth the Mashiyach (a.k.a. Jesus Christ) please take this challenge."
What do YOU think ?
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- 14 May 2002
Silence is a greater argument AGAINST the view.
- 16 May 2002
- Remote User:
There is no historical record of the Church vanishing from the earth in A.D. 66. This silence suggests that the Church was not literally raptured. The Bible tells us that the Son of Man was to gather His elect in A.D. 70, not in A.D. 66 (Matt. 24:31), and that His elect remnant was to survive beyond A.D. 70 and reign on Earth as Israel's posterity. (Isa. 1:9; Rom. 9:27-29; 11:5; Rev. 5:10). There are historical records from multiple sources of Apostolic Christians living beyond A.D. 70. Conclusion: Silence, the Bible, and history agree that the Church was not literally raptured. Case closed. --Dave Green
- 16 May 2002
- Remote User:
""It is also possible that the number of folks 'snatched away' might have been smaller than we think. ....There might not be a large number of true saints left at the time of Christ's return. (Matt. 24:10-24; Lk. 18:8)"" --------------------The above argument was suggested as a possible explanation as to why there was no historical record of the Church vanishing in A.D. 66. The rapture of a small group could have escaped the historical record. ......Response: If indeed there was "not a large number of true saints" in A.D. 66, why should anyone expect to find historical evidence of their activities immediately afterward? It is altogether reasonable that the writings and activities of such a small group were simply not preserved in history. The "New Testament" writings have survived only because they are divinely, providentially and supernaturally preserved. It is a fact that apart from the God-breathed "New Testament," early Church history is FILLED THROUGHOUT WITH GAPING GAPS --from the very beginning to well into the second century. Relying on uninspired writings, one could as easily infer from silence that a "rapture" happened in A.D. 40, or 50, or 80, as in A.D. 66. Extra-scriptural "silence" "demands" only this much: That it took the Church about 100 years of steady increase before it finally began to become a consistent subject in non-inspired histories. --Dave Green
- 16 May 2002
- Remote User:
The same reasons that drew all of us (or most of us) away from the rapture doctrine still hold now that we are preterists. Simply put, it is unbiblical. I see no reason now to re-fabricate this idea of a rapture.
- 17 May 2002
- Remote User:
What happened to the old adage, " Speak where the Bible speaks, and be silent where the Bible is silent?" A physical rapture of only the most "true" believers is an invitation to false doctrine and another cult! Remember the Mormon and Jehovah Witness beliefs? It also brings to mind the exploitation of the fear of not being "good enough" to be allowed entrance into heaven that the church in its various forms have used to control people in times past....and present. Jesus' kingdom has never been about the physical, why start with this now?
- 18 May 2002
- Remote User:
IMO silence is about as helpful for the rapture theory as it is for the postponement theory! TracyV
- 24 May 2002
- Remote User:
Actually, while I am a man who respects Ed very much, and even having once done a series of radio programs with him for almost 5 months as my co-host, I find myself wondering if it is not one of the cardinal logical fallacies to "argue from silence." Still, Ed knows his stuff, and I guess this can be viewed several ways. Fact is, the Scriptures don't really seem to give clear-cut information on this "rapture." I also don't agree with Ed Stevens or Dr. Birks on their view of ECP (eternal conscious punishment), but hey--they got the degrees! (-:
- 29 May 2002
- Remote User:
In my opinion the biggest problem, (a deadly problem i would add), with the whole idea that " "TRUE Christians" (?) were raptured, leaving on earth those who were NOT TRUE (?) Christians lies in the following: Christ would have left His Kingdom in the hands of " NOT TRUE Christians". In other words UNBELIEVERS, that is what "NOT TRUE Christians" are by definition, are the "foundation" of today's church !!! May i suggest instead, that the "silence" is due to the non existence of any PHYSICAL rapture; leaving us to ponder what is truly meant by " to be caught up" ?
- 06 Jun 2002
- Remote User:
if the church was present at the time of Christs comming there would be an abundance of written evidence.however the church at that time doesn't seem to have produced any writings hailing the establishment of the new kingdom,the fall of the old covenant and the reciept of the promises to the fathers!they were the church who had seen.the church who hadn't seen were the blessed that jesus spoke about.
- 15 Sep 2003
Ed's current rapture position is not from silence, as is well known, but rather from expectations! The expectations of first-century saints came from teaching like this: "When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3:4) I didn't realize it for quite some time, but the non-literal rapture position puts preterism into an indefensible position. If we don't see the truth of the literal rapture we can self destruct logically. Unbiased thinking is called for. Arthur Melanson
Date: 12 Oct 2005
How refreshing to read the accounts of history and find the fulfillments
before our very eyes! Great article and site folks! Keep it coming.
Date: 24 Oct 2005
In Rev 7:9-17, it speaks of a great multitude which no man could number from
all nations, people, kindred and tongues that had come out of 'great
tribulation' as those who had washed their robes, and made them white in the
blood of the Lamb...
If all or a vast majority of Christians in Jerusalem had fled to Pella, then
who are these people that were killed and came out of great tribulation ??
From my understanding of the article above, pretty much only non-believing
Jews died in the siege of Jerusalem, 66-70 AD.
Neronian persecution of Christians throughout the empire ??
Date: 07 Jul 2009
I just finished "parousia" by russell and found his level of honesty in his
hermeneutical approach quite refreshing. I am feeling my paradigm shifting
as I write.
Date: 16 Jul 2009
There was no rapture. The rapture doctrine is pure garbage and false hope,
something that the Thessaloninans had and the very reason why Paul had to go
there to stop the nonsense of their expectation of a physical return of the
kingdom on Earth with Christ, in the flesh, ruling. Something the Jewish
polity had expected and missed the boat entirely when Christ came the 1st
time. The "changed in the twinkling of an eye" is purely dealing with our
soul/spirit...once dead, now accepting Christ and "changed"!