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Church-State Relations and the Book of Revelation
By Todd Dennis, Curator (Futurist: 1979-1996; Full Preterist: 1996-2006; Idealist: 2006-Forevermore)



The Last Disciple, one of three books planned by Hanegraaff and his co-author, Sigmund Brouwer, has sold 50,000 copies in six weeks (vs. 85,000 for Left Behind in its first year).
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New Take on Rapture puts authors in apocalyptic feud

By IRA J. HADNOT / The Dallas Morning News
08:05 PM CST on Friday, November 5, 2004

Hank Hanegraaff | The Bible Answer Man and Preterism, circa 1995+/- |  "The Bible Answer Man", author of The Last Disciple: "John ...was writing about the times he was living in, using symbolism from the Old Testament prophets to describe conditions in the first century. All the major elements of the Book of Revelation - Tribulation, Armageddon, Rapture - took place at that time."

HANK MISQUOTED IN 'APOCALYPTIC FEUD'

"John was not writing about the future," Mr. Hanegraaff said. "He was writing about the times he was living in, using symbolism from the Old Testament prophets to describe conditions in the first century. All the major elements of the Book of Revelation – Tribulation, Armageddon, Rapture – took place at that time."

"I don't know what science fiction he is reading," said Dr. LaHaye. "We believe the Rapture is going to come, not his nonsense that Christ came back in 68 A.D."

HH: "First of all, this is not a man, it's a woman. And her name is Ira. And she wrote this article. And after she had written the article I saw the quote that had been attributed to me. So I gave her a call and she's no longer with the Dallas Morning News. What she explained to me is. The editor that took the story over after she had initially written it, but not finished it, confabulated some of my statements. And I clarified with her, "Have I ever said anything like that to you?" She said "No." And I said, "You're absolutely certain?" And I also asked her about some of the other quotes that were made with regards to Dr. LaHaye saying that I believe that Christ came back in AD68 and she did clarify that and say "Yes, that is precisely what he said. I have that in my notes." But she also made it very clear that I did not make this statement. Nor would I make this statement. Anybody that's listened to me for any period of time knows that I would not make that statement." (Listen with Windows Media | Listen with Real Media)

What if the Rapture has already happened?

What if Revelation's prophecies have been fulfilled?

These questions are unthinkable for those Christians who believe that the end of the world is, well, still to come – and that it will unfold in accordance with apocalyptic interpretations of the Book of Revelation: the Rapture, the sudden snatching up of millions of the faithful into heaven, followed by the seven-year Tribulation, during which the world is ruled by the Antichrist, followed by the return of Jesus and his triumph in the battle of Armageddon.

That's more or less the story line hewed to in the phenomenally popular Left Behind series. Now, however, Tyndale House, the Christian publisher of Left Behind, is planning a new fictional series with a very different view – one that posits that Revelation actually tells the story (in code) of the first-century persecution of Christians and of the fall of the Jewish Temple.

Tyndale officials say they're simply presenting different sides of an important theological issue.

But the Rev. Tim LaHaye, co-author of the Left Behind books, called the decision by his publisher "stunning and disappointing" and said he felt betrayed.

"They are going to take the money we made for them and promote this nonsense," he said.

The co-author of the new series, obviously, disagrees.

"I am elated with Tyndale's support," said Hank Hanegraaff, the host of a syndicated call-in radio show, The Bible Answer Man. The first book in the new series, written with Sigmund Brouwer, is The Last Disciple. Additional volumes are planned.

The decision to publish two different – some would say competing – apocalyptic series was made by Ron Beers, senior vice president of Tyndale, which is based in Wheaton, Ill.

"As a Christian publisher, we want to represent a diversity of viewpoints," said Mr. Beers. "There is nothing strange about Tyndale selling both views. There are a variety of perspectives on the end times. Some people had a problem with the theology in the Left Behind books."

Mr. Beers was the Tyndale executive who purchased the Left Behind series and saw it grow, over nine years, into a sales empire rivaling those built by John Grisham, Tom Clancy and J.K. Rowling.

The 12 Left Behind books have sold about 42 million copies, counting both paperback and hardcover sales. When children's editions, graphic novels and the like are counted, the figure is 62 million. In addition, there are spinoff products, from calendars and music CDs to greeting cards and computer software.

The most recent book in the series, Glorious Appearing, sold almost 2 million copies even before it hit the stores last March. It was supposed to have been the 12th and final installment, in which Jesus returns to earth and presides at the Last Judgment. But already, at least four sequels or prequels are planned.

Dr. LaHaye is a former Southern California pastor. Mr. Hanegraaff heads a Christian research institute based in Southern California.

From their comments about each other's work, it seems unlikely that the two men will be exchanging signed copies of their books.

"I don't know what science fiction he is reading," said Dr. LaHaye. "We believe the Rapture is going to come, not his nonsense that Christ came back in 68 A.D."

"I am reading the Bible, specifically Revelations it was written for first-century Christians," retorted Mr. Hanegraaff. "I am not relying on some wooden, literal interpretation that is unsupportable."

The Last Disciple, the first of at least three books planned, depicts the Roman emperor, Nero, as "the beast." In the book, Christians in Rome and Jerusalem are suffering through the Tribulation. Nero is trying to find the Apostle John's letter (the Book of Revelation) and destroy it. To survive, the early Christians must decipher a mysterious code. (The code for Nero's name is the number 666, regarded by many as the mark of the Antichrist.)

Sound farfetched?

Maybe. But scholars of eschatology, the branch of theology dealing with the end of the world, note that biblical references to the end times are almost always ambiguous, highly symbolic and subject to widely varying interpretations.

"The Bible, in particular the Revelation of John, is open to many dramatic readings," said Harvey Cox, a professor at Harvard Divinity School.

"Unfortunately, some are merely a paste-up of what the Bible actually says, a pulling from various passages to craft a theology that the bulk of New Testament scholars do not support."

He said Revelation "was a polemic against the corruption, debauchery and greed of the Roman Empire" and that it was "meant to be an encouragement for the people who were living under persecution.

"Christians were being fed to the lions. John was writing in exile, fearful for his life."

The book is dense with symbols, visionary images and descriptions that seem allegorical, such as the lamb with seven horns and seven eyes, believed to represent Jesus. John "had to write it in code," Dr. Cox said, "because it was circulating around and might have fallen into the hands of the emperor."

The professor said the Left Behind series is based on the notion of "premillennialism" or "dispensationalism," which he said is "the belief that the world is getting worse and worse, and that Christ will come to get the Christians, the born-again Christians."

This helps explain the series' popularity, he said. "You can look at the world these days and see the kind of killing that has gone for a century now. ... Who would not believe things are getting worse? We have had a Holocaust, wars, massacres.

"The books celebrate the notion that the worse things become, the happier Christians should be, because Christ is coming."

Dr. LaHaye said the viewpoint expressed in his books is backed by "300 years of church teaching." But Dr. Cox said dispensationalism was considered heresy in ancient times and suppressed. It re-emerged in the 19th century, thanks to "a New Age-y, mystical type sect in Scotland."

The Last Disciple, on the other hand, is based on the notion of "preterism," which holds that most if not all major prophetic events in the New Testament have happened. According to this view, the great war of Armageddon occurred in 70 A.D., around the time the Roman general and future emperor, Titus Flavius, destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem.

When Jesus talked about the end of the world, according to preterists, he was referring not to the physical world but to an old worldview held by Jews in his time.

"John was not writing about the future," Mr. Hanegraaff said. "He was writing about the times he was living in, using symbolism from the Old Testament prophets to describe conditions in the first century. All the major elements of the Book of Revelation – Tribulation, Armageddon, Rapture – took place at that time."

How will readers react to the new series? Will they buy it?

Dr. LaHaye, predictably, doesn't think so.

"There are 85 percent of evangelical Christians who believe as we do. We'll see if they will be successful with the 15 percent who don't."

Mr. Hanegraaff, predictably, disagrees.

He said his books will lure readers "in an age where most people aren't even reading the Bible. ... I want them to go back to Revelation and see if they will read it the same way, after they have read The Last Disciple."

LETTER TO THE EDITOR
OF THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS

Clarifying his views

Re: "New take on Rapture puts authors in apocalyptic feud,"

Nov. 6

Just a note to clarify some misconceptions concerning my view of biblical eschatology communicated in the article.

First, Tim LaHaye's assertion that I subscribe to the "nonsense that Christ came back in 68 A.D." is surely one of his more creative works of fiction. Such a notion is not even hinted at in my book, The Last Disciple, nor have I made such a statement in any forum. Dr. LaHaye simply manufactured this assertion out of whole cloth.

Furthermore, I have never suggested that the Rapture has already taken place. Thus, the article's opening sentence, "What if the Rapture has already happened?" is misleading. In fact, unlike the Left Behind series – which is based on the pre-Tribulational Rapture theory posited and popularized in the 19th century by John Nelson Darby – The Last Disciple series is centered on the great and glorious truth of Resurrection.

Finally, nowhere in The Last Disciple is there any suggestion that in order "to survive, early Christians must decipher a mysterious code." While deciphering the symbols of Revelation is often difficult for 21st-century Christians addicted to "newspaper theology," John's coded letter would have been substantially clear to first-century believers.

Thank you for the opportunity to make the above clarifications and to affirm that I hold to what is taught in Scripture and codified in the creeds: Jesus is coming again; the dead will be resurrected; and the problem of sin will be fully and finally resolved.

Hank Hanegraaff, president, Christian Research Institute, Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif.

TIME MAGAZINE:
 NOVEMBER 22, 2004

Is It the End of the World as This Author Knows It?

Monday, Nov. 22, 2004
Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins have sold 42 million books by fictionalizing the Biblical End Times in the Left Behind series. But this fall their Christian publisher, Tyndale House, launched a rival series directly challenging the premise that born-again Christians will be "raptured" into heaven while those "left behind" face the anti-Christ during the Apocalypse. LaHaye was not amused when Tyndale asked him to debate his new competition, Christian-radio host Hank Hanegraaff, as a promotion. Hanegraaff's novel, The Last Disciple, argues that the Book of Revelation describes the persecution of 1st century Christians under Nero, not some future tribulation of nonbelievers. "A lot of Christians have been hoodwinked into this amillennial viewpoint," says LaHaye. "I'm not going to promote that flawed theory."

Hanegraaff, known as the Bible Answer Man, counters that the Left Behind books are part of a trend toward sensationalism and "script torture" of the Bible. "There is a lot of hysteria because of the Left Behind books," he says. Tyndale decided to offer the alternate viewpoint after talking to biblical scholars. "We think debate is healthy in the church and will help both series," says publisher Ron Beers. The Last Disciple, one of three books planned by Hanegraaff and his co-author, Sigmund Brouwer, has sold 50,000 copies in six weeks (vs. 85,000 for Left Behind in its first year). But LaHaye says he isn't worried. He plans to deliver the four books he owes Tyndale and let readers decide how this story ends.

From the Nov. 22, 2004 issue of TIME magazine

What do YOU think ?

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Date:
06 Nov 2004
Time:
20:38:08

Comments

For the record, Hank is a partial preterist. He looks for the resurrection and what he sees as the real Second Coming to happen in the future. His coming out in favor of any form of preterism, however, is a big step in the right direction. By the way, the partial preterist's attempt to separate the resurrection from the AD 70 great tribulation (as Hank does) simply does not work. Daniel 12:1-2 show them as happening at the same time. At the AD 70 shattering of the Jewish nation (Dan. 12:7) Duncan


Date:
06 Nov 2004
Time:
22:27:35

Comments

Duncan, Hank said in that article that the *RAPTURE* "took place at that time." How can he believe that the Rapture is past and be a partial preterist at the same time????? [TDD: Hank was misquoted]


Date:
07 Nov 2004
Time:
09:33:49

Comments

Let me answer your question by quoting Kenneth Gentry (who also is a partial preterist): "Paul's statement 'concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him' 2 Thess. 2:1...is speaking of the AD 70 judgment on the Jews... With the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, from that point on Christians will be 'gathered together' in a separate and distinct assembly. After Jerusalem's destruction God no longer tolerates Temple worship- indeed he makes it impossible." Ken Gentry, Perilous Times 100-101 So in this view the rapture is seen as the AD 70 spiritual gathering of the church in "a separate and distinct assembly." Gentry and Hank still look for a future Second Coming and resurrection. Duncan


Date:
07 Nov 2004
Time:
10:08:42

Comments

Sorry Duncan, that answer doesn't work. Like most or all partial preterists, Gentry believes that the "gathering" was fulfilled and he _absolutely rejects_ the idea that the "RAPTURE" was fulfilled. So, in radical contrast to Gentry and the whole partial preterist camp, Hank Haanegraf says that the "RAPTURE" was fulfilled. Hank has made a FULL preterist statement. Hank has some 'splainin' to do. <g>


Date:
07 Nov 2004
Time:
11:03:31

Comments

I guess I am not aware of this partial preterist distinction between the gathering together and the rapture; could you provide a quote outlining this position? Thanks. What I do know is that I was listening to Hank a week or so ago and he was still making the partial preterist distinction between the AD 70 judgment coming of Jesus as opposed to the future Second Coming when the resurrection would happen. Duncan


Date:
07 Nov 2004
Time:
15:22:04

Comments

I think it is great that the preterist interpretation is being presented in a way that will hopefully reach an audience that otherwise would not have known of it. This series of books will find a great many who will find its hopeful and optimistic world view a welcome change from the pessimistic hopeless world view of futurism. Perhaps even critics of christianity will take notice and find a new respect for the christian faith based on accomplished facts of history as opposed to the fanciful fairy tales of the failed eschatology of futurism.


Date:
07 Nov 2004
Time:
15:51:19

Comments

I have gone back and read the Bible Answer Mans article on the Archive and now I am not quite so optimistic about these books. I hope his views have evolved into full pret but I am concerned that they have not. These books could do more harm to the clear teaching of Jesus and his Holy Apostles by causing confusion as to the nature of Preterism. I realize that these books will be fictional but had hoped they would still uphold the underlying truth of preterist theology.


Date:
07 Nov 2004
Time:
16:39:19

Comments

This news is excellent. Thank you for giving preterism a hearing. It has been very hard to put up with the general presumption that dispensationalism is the right view. Now let them try to defend the indesfensible when preterism is given a fair hearing. Alan Allison


Date:
08 Nov 2004
Time:
19:24:31

Comments

There will always be those who will dispute the word of God . Those especially that can easily be used by satan. Which this man seems to be a likely candidate. I just hope he sees the light before its too late.


Date:
08 Nov 2004
Time:
21:10:53

Comments

I was a Rapture believing Christian who believed the entire Dispensationalism stuff for years. I have been growing very concerned that Jesus hadn't come back as promised and that 2000 years is a long time to wait. I was taught that the early 1st Century Christians were wrong (and Jesus since he didn't know the hour of his coming) about the end times. I just couldn't believe this but I had no alternative until I saw Hank's book and suddenly the entire flood gates were opened up for me.....


Date:
10 Nov 2004
Time:
08:18:09

Comments

I am interested in the latest position espoused by Hank, especially since I have found him to be one of the most proficient and blessed teachers of our times. What concerns me is the MARKETING, how noticeably absent these points of view have been on his show and in other materials, apparently in anticipation of this series. He has also said He is working on a non-fiction work of his view-point of eschatology, which if it is anything like his other non-fiction educational series, will undoubtedly be well documented and thought out. Let us not forget that our eschatalogical views should never be a dividing point - But a stimulus to study and seek the Lord Jesus Christ and the continual revelation of Himself to us through scripture, as our Lord said "I AM THE TRUTH". We should be lovers of the TRUTH even at the expense of disagreeing with our Grandpa's religion and tradition.


Date:
10 Nov 2004
Time:
19:10:16

Comments

This is indeed wonderful news and I wish Hank great success. Even if you're a full-pret you have to admit this is a big step in the right direction. After all, how many of you full-prets out there didn't wade through the waters of partial-preterism for a season? Mr. Hanegraaff is known and respected for his well thought-out work and I'm sure his efforts will reach a very wide audience. DBS


Date:
10 Nov 2004
Time:
23:06:14

Comments

I've been a listener to the Bible Answer Man for a good many years now, and I can tell you with certainty that Hank does not believe that the rapture is an event that occurred in the first century. He has very clearly stated on his broadcast that he believes that the rapture occurs at the time of Christ's future second coming, on the last day. The author of this article is simply mistaken. If interested, search the CRI broadcast archive at www.equip.org for the broadcast in which Steven Gregg appeared as a guest. On this broadcast He clearly states his views regarding these issues.


Date:
11 Nov 2004
Time:
13:31:35

Comments

WOW ...I THINK IT IS GREAT THAT HAMMERIN' HANK IS LEANING TOWARDS PRETERISM . HE IS THE ONE WHO HELPED STRAIGHTEN ME OUT OF "CRAZY PENTACOSTALISM ", WELL , HANK AND GOD . LOOKING FORWARD TO BUYING THE LAST DISCIPLE.


Date:
12 Nov 2004
Time:
09:56:13

Comments

I believe that the majority of educated Christians who can read scripture for themselves would say that this article is nonsense. If you would go back through the Bible, and look at the history of the Bible's remarkable accuracy of prophecy that has been fulfilled, it is not that difficult to understand that the events that are spoken of regarding the second coming of Christ have yet to be fulfilled. You failed to mention in this article that not only is the second coming spoken of in Revelations, but throughout the Old Testament as well. If we were left to rely only on what is written in Revelations, interpretation would be admittedly difficult.


Date:
14 Nov 2004
Time:
17:40:26

Comments

Well i read through each of the posts and found them interesting. I've listened to HH for years and I am looking forward to reading "The Last Disciple". I came to the Preterist View basically due to being fed up w/the Gloom and Doom teachings from most pulpits...and FINALY thinking and reading for myself. The plain teaching of ALL scripture, OT and NT is presented in the Preterist view. Thom From The WET! Coast of Oregon USA


Date:
17 Nov 2004
Time:
17:25:10

Comments

I respect Hank a lot, but I hope to see someone else take on the mantel of a "Walter Martin". I do not see Hank as being in the same flavor as his mentor and predecessor. Walter Martin would have come "out of the closet" without consideration of losing a hearing constituancy, revealing his ideas on eschatology. Walter Martin would not necessarily been popular with the current pre-tribbers, but I believe that he would never cut himself adrift from biblical premillinialism. Hank seems to have grown cold in his participation with God pouring out of His spirit. While giving verbal assent to the possibility of the operation of the "extant" gifts of the Spirit found in places like 1 Corinthians chapters 13-15, he is not openly recognizing any current movement as a legitimate place where charismata is taking place today. Walter Martin was a lot more comfortable with Pentecostals, Charismatics, and Third-Wave believers, without giving to unbiblical teachings which came up from time to time. We need another Ambassador like Walter Martin.


Date:
18 Nov 2004
Time:
03:43:29

Comments

BOTH BOOKS ARE FICTION AND NEITHER WRITER HAS IT CORRECT. JESUS JUST RETURNS ONE TIME AS THE SCRIPTURES PREDICT NOT BEFORE THE TRIBULATION AND AGAIN AFTER THE TRIBULATION BUT AS JESUS LAID IT OUT PLAINLY IN MATTHEW 24, AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS THEN YOU WOULD SEE HIM COMING IN THE CLOUDS.


Date:
21 Nov 2004
Time:
05:59:26

Comments

Its nice to see that Hank has some guts to put out such a book finally I might be able to join a local church that allows me to express my views instead of telling me not to say anything.


Date:
22 Nov 2004
Time:
22:08:55

Comments

I believe Christ is returning in my lifetime. I am 28 years old and My household and I are saved as the bible promises. As far as debating. The bible warns against itin Romans capter one in reference to those who will not live eternally. 2Thessalonians also says that God will send some a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie. Pray that you will be found worthy to escape Gods wrath to come. If Christ already returned then what happened to the 7 years and Armaggedon? Why are we still here? Jesus is coming again. Please pray for Gods TRUTH, not mans. God will not mislead you nor leave you or forsake you. Please donot harden your hearts to the truth and be turned to a reprobate mind. There will be false prophets that the devil is using as pawns. Take delight in righteousness and the truth of God found in His infallible Word. Wash yourself in His (Jesus) blood and living water (WORD). Be not deceived. The only one you can truly trust in is God and His truth will set you free indeed. God bless you.Beware to wolves that come in sheeps clothing because inward they are ravening! Don't let man send you to hell by lisening to winds of doctrine and false teachers/antichrists. Just pray and read Gods Word and listen to His Spirit ONLY! God doesn't want any to perish. Jesus is the Way,the Truth,and the Life and NO man cometh unto to God the Father except through Him. If you try you are the same as a thief and a robber and you know they don't have eternal life abiding in them. Trust in God! Love Jerome and Trisha Kelly


Date:
22 Nov 2004
Time:
22:27:30

Comments

Hello fellow brothers and sisters in Christ! First off I pray that some people pay for the scales to be removed from their eyes and their hearts to be softened to the TRUTH of Gods infallible Word. If the rapture happened when they say it did the world would no longer exist and Christ would have already reigned for 1000 years,There would be a new heaven and a new earth and there would be no sin in it. But as far as I can tell people are missing alot more scripture then just the rapture. Besides the gospel has t be preached around the world and then the end will come. in that time they didn't have the means to o so like we do today(radio,television,cars,airplanes,ect.) They certainly wouldn't hve had a system to keep track of the world. I pray that people wil read more than one book of the bible so they can get the BIG picture. False teaching is rampantg and the devil will deceive even the very elect in the end times. God bless and may you all pray for Gods Truth-NOT mans. Love in Christ,Jerome and Trisha Kelly


Date:
24 Nov 2004
Time:
09:55:29

Comments

Woe to all of us if our present condition is described in Revelation 21:4. Do you all really think that this is the best God can do in accomplishing His Word? The verse reads, "and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there shall no longer be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; and the first things have passed away." The Risen Saviour I serve does not promise these things and then serve us a cold dish of the world as we know it. The prophesies may have been fulfilled in 70 AD. I think there is an awful lot of allowances that have to made to say that things like the battle of Armegeddon have already happened. I am a dispensationalist and my escatology follows that. On this secondary issue I am willing to concede that I may be proven wrong one day. I think that Hank has laid out a cohesive arguement. I disagree with his conclusions in that I think Nero was a type of Anti-Christ, not the antitype. No big deal. We Pre-mil types have hope in stuff like Romans 6-8. We find our hope in Christ, whatever the state of the world. Please don't paste us all as gloomy. Grace and Peace! IRW


Date:
24 Nov 2004
Time:
14:01:44

Comments

LaHaye is clearly suffering a case of sour grapes. Anyone with historical awareness surely can see that his premillennial confabulations are, as St Paul once put it, a cartload of dung. The mental gymnastics required to make a "Rapture" out of the supposed proof-texts usually quoted is surely a sight to behold. I fear for America, and the West, that such tripe has proven so popular.


Date:
24 Nov 2004
Time:
18:04:50

Comments

I remember when Hank used to say he was pan-trib (assuming also he was premillennial) He even had someone on his program or staff (I think it was Ron Rhodes) who was pre-trib. I think it was his friendship with R.C. Sproul who has been on his program at least once. Personally I think if he wasn't sure about premillennialism he should have just been neutral or pan-millennial. I sometimes have to wonder if all these books (even before the Last Disciple) that he has written in the past fews is to save himself financially because of the controversy concerning him. By the way I'm also not a fan of Left Behind as well - it's not good theology as it tells people they need to get saved now but then tells them that many will be saved in the tribulation. I'm so surprised that Hank would even touch the subject of eschatology in so much detail. This is not the person I used to hear on the radio.


Date:
25 Nov 2004
Time:
17:49:01

Comments

I have listened to Hank show for years now, and knew he was hiding somethng up his sleeve on eschatology. I used to tell my wife, Hank is hiding something. Now the cat is out of the bag, the first century paradigm has taken another victim. Eventually i feel this preterist view is going to explode, people want the truth, not fiction, not fantasy, time for people to lay down their presuppositions, and embrace the truth. thanks wayne O


Date:
3 Dec 2004
Time:
14:32:23

Comments

If Hank ascribes the "Return of Christ" to the AD70 Event, and the "Coming in the Clouds" to that same event, then what terminology does he save for the future?  The "Second Coming of Christ"?  But to claim that AD70 was definitively *A* coming of Christ would mean that the next one is the THIRD COMING OF CHRIST..    Henry Hammond had the guts in the 17th century to call AD70 the Second Coming and the "end of the world" return of Christ the "third coming."   How about "The Rapture"?  Indeed, the rapture has not happened, nor will it ever.  But you won't find it in the Bible, either.  It seems to boil down to this: Was the "Coming of the Son of Man on the Clouds of Heaven" a REAL coming?  If so, as F.W. Farrar said in the 19th century, "the Fall of Jerusalem was, *in the fullest sense*, the Second Advent of the Son of Man which was primarily contemplated by the earliest voices of prophecy"


Date:
17 Dec 2004
Time:
18:23:55

Comments

Dispensationalist is theologically challenged. Scripture has to be taken ought of context and put together to make their hypothesis. First, you have to swallow that Jesus comes back twice. One of the scriptures dispensationalist use for this states that He will come like a thief in the night. Within the context it says to those who are asleep, not walking in the Spirit, He will come like a thief. I think Dispensationalism is a doctrine of demons and can easily be debunked by reading the Bible contextually.


Date:
18 Dec 2004
Time:
10:18:23

Comments

Date: 10 Nov 2004 Time: 08:18:09 Comments I am interested in the latest position espoused by Hank, especially since I have found him to be one of the most proficient and blessed teachers of our times. What concerns me is the MARKETING, how noticeably absent these points of view have been on his show and in other materials, apparently in anticipation of this series. He has also said He is working on a non-fiction work of his view-point of eschatology, which if it is anything like his other non-fiction educational series, will undoubtedly be well documented and thought out. Let us not forget that our eschatalogical views should never be a dividing point - But a stimulus to study and seek the Lord Jesus Christ and the continual revelation of Himself to us through scripture, as our Lord said "I AM THE TRUTH". We should be lovers of the TRUTH even at the expense of disagreeing with our Grandpa's religion and tradition. AMEN. Clearly the study of the endtimes is entering judgement and what cannot be shaken shall remain. I repost this post because it points to an attitude of humility which is sadly lacking. After all: "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." The one thing we all should know is that we don't know. Nevertheless if we humbly submit to one another and to God, the Spirit will reveal, as promised in Amos 3, what is coming. Steve


Date:
20 Dec 2004
Time:
15:19:20

Comments

Hank is going to be forced to debate the full or Biblical Preterist view. He will have to do so because so many futurists are going to be applying Hank's own hermeneutics (Mt. 24 / 1Thess. 4) and conclude that he believes the second coming already happened. Something I already see has happened :)Hank will have to debate us to "prove" he is "orthodox" and isn't a "Hyper-Preterist." Even though it is a compromising position, I am thankful for all the Christians that will be exposed to a hermeneutical principal that will point them in the right direction. In Christ, Mike Sullivan


Date:
28 Dec 2004
Time:
13:00:25

Comments


Date:
01 Jan 2005
Time:
17:59:49

Comments

Hank is a slenderous kook. He always has been. puffed up heretic himself.


Date:
01 Jan 2005
Time:
18:04:55

Comments

Hank is a slanderous kook. He always has been a puffed up heretic himself.


Date:
04 Jan 2005
Time:
11:20:23

Comments

Some confusion about Hank's views regarding the end-times has resulted from a recent newspaper article that first ran in the The Dallas Morning News, November 6, 2004, and about a dozen newspapers across the nation have reprinted it. In response to the misinformation published in that original article, Hank wrote the following letter to the editor, which The Dallas Morning News printed December 11, 2004: Re: "New take on Rapture puts authors in apocalyptic feud," Nov. 6 To the Editor: Just a note to clarify some misconceptions concerning my view of biblical eschatology communicated in the article. First, Tim LaHaye's assertion that I ascribe to the "nonsense that Christ came back in 68 A.D.," is surely one of his more creative works of fiction. Such a notion is not even hinted at in my book, The Last Disciple, nor have I made such a statement in any other forum. Dr. LaHaye simply manufactured this assertion out of whole cloth. Furthermore, I have never suggested that the Rapture has already taken place. Thus, the article's opening sentence, "What if the Rapture has already happened?" is misleading. In fact, unlike the Left Behind series—which is based on the pre- Tribulational rapture theory posited and popularized in the 19th century by John Nelson Darby—The Last Disciple series is centered on the great and glorious truth of Resurrection. Finally, nowhere in The Last Disciple is there any suggestion that in order "to survive, early Christians must decipher a mysterious code." While deciphering the symbols of Revelation is often difficult for 21st-century Christians addicted to "newspaper theology," John's coded letter would have been substantially clear to firstcentury believers. Thank you for the opportunity to make the above clarifications and to affirm that I hold to what is taught in Scripture and codified in the creeds: Jesus is coming again; the dead will be resurrected; and the problem of sin will be fully and finally resolved. —Hank Hanegraaff, president, Christian Research Institute, Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif.


Date:
11 Mar 2005
Time:
22:56:31

Comments

I think Hank doesn't take anything Literal in the Bible, which I'm concerned about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. He tries to use his Intellect to explain the Scriptures instead of being lead by the Spirit. Jesus said in Mathew 24 that his return would be like the days of Noah and Lot and were seeing them now. Hank should be concerned about the Apostasy which is coming and hope that he's not part of it. People thought they were going through the Tribulation and Paul said that there would be a falling away before the Son of Perdition would be revealed. I think Hank should get back to basics and talk more about Salvation which I never hear him mention about his conversion. If he hasn't had one, it would be no suprise that his teachings are off.

 

 
Date:
18 Mar 2005
Time:
07:27:09

Comments

I've listened to Hank several times and I have a lot of respect for him. One of the posts above implies that Hank wants to sell those books to get himself out of financial trouble. I don't buy that. Besides, the grass is much greener on LaHaye and Jenkin's side of the fence. Hanegraaff is much like Gary Demar. You have to read very closely to find that he's not a full preterist. I wouldn't be outspoken about it either if I was a partial preterist. It's extremely easy to get stuck to a theological tarbaby. Without divine intervention, I believe guys like Hanegraaff and Demar have come as far as they ever will towards full preterism. There are steep consequences to being a consistent preterist. Everyone wants to call you a wolf and beat you with a stick. However, for twenty years of my life I never knew what a preterist was. It was a Gary Demar book that led me in a preterist direction and I respect him highly for his work. I think Hank's new book is something to be optimistic about - especially for those who will read it and know: truth is infinitely more comforting than comfort alone.


Date:
18 Mar 2005
Time:
07:30:47

Comments

The post immediately above was by Derek Truesdale. nerdwithoutalife[AT IF YOU'RE NOT A SPAMBOT]yahoo.com


Date: 03 May 2005
Time: 17:53:26

Comments:

I had respect for Hank Hanegraaff until I saw how completely lost he is in interperting the book of Revelation. Dr. LaHaye is right it is sad to be putting out such an indefensible view of Bible prophecy.


Date: 22 Nov 2005
Time: 10:25:35

Comments:

Just a few thoughts on the subject:

1. From what I can piece together, Hank is not a full Preterist, he was rather quoted as being such by the Dallas Morning Herald. So Tim's ascertion that he postulates a 68 AD rapture is ill founded. One who did take this position was J. Stewart Russell who speculated that the last 12 verses of Mark were added by a scribe and Acts was left incomplete because both Mark and Luke had been raptured. While I doubt the likelihood of that, it would seem unfair to place such an interpretation on Hank.

2. I am disturbed by Tim's comment that 85% of the Church is on his side and the apparent presumption that this makes his position correct. Prior to Columbus, the vast majority felt the world was flat. Did that make their position correct?

3. I don't have the verses before me right now but Zephaniah and one other prophet (Jeremiah?) both state that the Philistine nation will be completely destroyed - an event that did not happen until around 1210 AD. Thus it seems incorrect to presume that all prophecy was fulfilled by 70 AD.

4. One danger I do see in full preterism is the assumption that the devil is currently in the Lake of fire. I would caution against taking the enemy too lightly.

5. A thorough reading of Josephus would seem to confirm that much of what Jesus predicted in Matthew 24 has already come to pass. Even the signs in the heavens seem to find a parallel in Josephus' sightings of chariots, comets and a heiffer giving birth to a lamb. And either Nero or the Lateinos would at least seem to be a prime candidate for the identification of 666. However, unless you either accept Russell's apologetic or place symbolic interpretatons on such things as the rapture, the ending of the times of the Gentiles and the 1000 year millenium in Revelation, they seem to still be awaiting fulfillment. One full preterist has suggested the likelihood that archaeology will one day uncover accounts of people who say they were walking up a hill with a partner when the latter disappeared. Perhaps. But then again perhaps we will one day find such evidence to suggest that the lost nation of Atlantis actually existed as well.

Howie Gardner


Date: 30 Dec 2005
Time: 15:43:50

Comments:

If someone were to observe what the scriptures say about Israel from the perspective of 100 or 150 years ago it might be easy to consider that God is finished with the Jews and Israel or that the promises of God are for some other group or place.
However today with out a need to interpret the news or even the Bible it is clear that Israel exists and that Jews are in the land and that although under considerable stress and conflict Israel has prospered. Israel is a modern day miracle. Israel was established in 1948 against all odds and has survived multiple wars all of which logically they should have lost. OH YES, THE TOPIC OF WHO HAS GOT EVERYTING FIGURED OUT CORRECTLY CONCERNING THE TIMES WE NOW LIVE? ALL THAT WE NEED TO DO TO KNOW THE TRUTH IS TO PRAY TO GOD FOR UNDERSTANDING AND AS ENCOURAGED IN PROVERBS 3:5 WE SHOULD PUT OUR TRUST IN GOD. IF WE OBSERVE AND ACKNOWLEDGE HIM IN ALL OUR WAYS AND HIS ACTIONS HE PROMISES TO DIRECT OUR PATHS. LET US ALL TRUST IN GOD AND THE WORD HIS SON JESUS. Your in Christ, Bob Baird Sacramento, Ca


Date: 29 Jan 2006
Time: 22:48:07

Comments:

As with Paul when the scales fell from his eyes, I have seen dispensationalism in a new light, the light of truth and have put that made up doctrine where I feel it belongs. In my recycle bin so that I might delete it altogether. I believe the Lord has opened my eyes and, for now, have cast my lot with the partial preterists. Although the more I read material on full preterism, the more I find "scales" falling from my eyes. As I approach 60 years (36 as a Christian)of age, using full preterism doctrine, the Book of Daniel and Revelation each become more and more of an open book. I find that when I consider scripture using the full preterism doctrines, not only my understanding opens up but there is increased joy and excitement. But I am waiting on the Lord for final conformation. In Christ, Jim


Date: 26 Feb 2006
Time: 14:47:38

Comments:

I think Walter Martin would turn in over in his grave if he was there to here of Hanks folly,but instead he's in Heaven probably laughing himself silly that such strange beleifs are being taught....Jesus hasnt come back yet,but its close..the funniest thing is that right now Israel is on the news day in and day out...and still people dont get it...Haks not only got money problems thes got theology problems....


Date: 10 Jun 2006
Time: 00:55:03

Comments:

Wow. I have to say that you people sure dont read so well. If you read the articles, Hank DIDNT say he believed that the rapture had already happened. The newspaper said it and LaHaye ran with it. But trust me, anyone who has listened to Hank knows that he doesnt believe that. Infact, thats what makes him a partial preterist. We dont believe in a rapture in the classical sense. There will be no secret coming of Christ. The rapture is merely the style of resurrection that happens to those who are alive (and therefore cant be physically resurrected since they never died on earth) when Christ comes again. I'm not really sure why this debate even went on for so long... did no one read that Hank actually didnt say that?


Date: 03 Jul 2006
Time: 12:15:16

Comments:

I started with pre-trib rapture theology and after many years of actually viewing all sides to the debate have embraced preterism. If LaHaye is so confident of his position, why is he afraid of the debate? I've finished the Last Disciple and have the 2nd book ready to read when the third one comes out. The first book was awesome! I do believe everyone comes to understanding on different issues in God's time so maybe at some point in the future LaHaye will change his beliefs...wouldn't that be something?


Date: 01 Aug 2006
Time: 10:56:28

Comments:

Jesus died for our sins and gives us eternal life! Isn't that enough? If He's coming back and we've put our trust in Him we go to heaven. If he came back (in judgement) upon apostate Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and we've put our trust in Him we still go to heaven! I love Hanks books and enjoy the Left Behind books too. Let us rejoice and give thanks in Christ our Savior!!! Tony Rowan


Date: 17 Sep 2006
Time: 19:33:31

Comments:

Hank hide his eschatology views under the a mask of "I am studying the issue." While at the same time he was cutting a book deal with Tyndale House. The only thing he was studying was his financial agreements. Half of his programs are nothing but self promotion of he and his friends books. Call it Christian capitalism if you like but Jesus saw it more as making GOd's house a den of thieves.

Willy
 


Date: 22 Sep 2006
Time: 02:03:00

Comments:

I am concerned about some unanswered questions of the preterist viewpoint. If someone could help me out I would greatly appreciate it. So in the preterist viewpoint when did Jesus Christ return? What happened to His 1000 year reign? What happened to His new Jerusalem, New Heaven and New Earth? Surely if this had already happened would not history have recorded it for us left behind? Hank speaks of a ressurection but resurrection to what? I for one would not like being resurrected to life in the world as it is now in its current state. Doesn't something have to happen before this resurrection? What does the preterist think that is? I understand that the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD is the focal point of this view but when was the second advent of Christ supposedly to have happened? If His second advent has occurred why are we here and are we not doomed? What would be the point to believing in Christ He has come and gone already and there is no hope?


Date: 15 Oct 2006
Time: 07:57:09

Comments:

Back in the 70s I read "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsay. Being a fairly new Christian and having little knowledge of history during the years before, during, and after Christ's advent, I bought into Lindsay's interpretation. I had attended only Baptist churches since becoming a Christian, and this book was the first time I had heard this interpretation of end-times theology. In fact, I cannot recall ever hearing a sermon on the subject of end times before reading that book. Soon, however, it was the topic of sermons, seminars, conferences, and revivals everywhere one turned in the evangelistic and/or charismatic Christian world. Through the prompting of the Holy Spirit, I began to have some doubts about this "theory" of end times. God prompted me to study the Scriptures again in an objective manner with no preconceived notion of what the Scripture said. When I did this I discovered I could not reach the same conclusion as Hal Lindsay and his fellow dispensational
A couple of things bother me about modern Bibles with all their notes and comments. One, the notes and comments in every modern Bible I have seen lead one toward if not totally promote the dispensational interpretation. Second is that the notes often fail to inform the reader that the book or epistle was written primarily if not totally to a Jewish Christian audience, and lacking that knowledge can thwart the best understanding of the Scripture.
Unfortunately, not many in today's churches are motivated or willing to re-examine their "Late Great Planet Earth" theology. Those who fail to endorse and espouse that belief are viewed as being a few chapters short of a book! However, prayer changes things, and I pray that God will overturn this false teaching and bring the Church back to The Truth of His Word and His Alone!
Virginia C. Roberts


Date: 28 Nov 2006
Time: 01:32:44

Comments:

If I may speak allegorically, then I have found this topic over the years to be much like choosing which soda pop I will have with my popcorn at the movies: the movie is all important, not the choice of soda.

In other words, while I pray for a clear answer from the Lord on this issue, the most important matter of all is how I live my life, the movie of Christ within me. If I do that well, no matter what soda pop I pick (no matter if I think it happened or will some day happen), I will have won the race Paul said we run in Christ.

Again, allegorically, to debate this for the wrong reasons is to consume too much time squabbling at Thanksgiving over whether we're going to have butter or margarine on our mashed potatoes as well as whether the potatoes are going to be real or imitation, when the whole point is to gather together with family and friends to celebrate with one another in the goodness of life God has granted us.

So then, I see this as an intellectual polemic that should remain subservient to a victorious and pious life dedicated to Christ, prayer, reading of the Scriptures and charity toward others in all areas of our life at church, home, work, with friends or elsewhere.

Gregory Lane Newman
San Antonio, Texas

PS: I have to say, Why don't we pray and ask the Lord to clear this up for us? That seems to work great for many of the impossible matters in my past, so why not here, now? And yet truth is like water, to which you can lead a horse but not make it drink, and all men are not able to see it as easily as others.


Date: 28 Mar 2007
Time: 17:08:10

Comments:


I am glad you are publishing The Last Disciple. I consider the Left Behind series nothing more than an extension of John Darby and C. I. Scofield's efforts to corrupt the Word of God with false doctrine.
T. Gordon Martin


Date: 29 May 2007
Time: 07:38:44

Comments:

The book has challanged quite a lot of my understandings and I am glad for that. I dont feel pressured to take sides or embrace everything I have read because my security has never been based on "whose right/wrong concerning last days?".
Just wanted to pop in and say I would recommend reading Hanks book before passing judgement on it.


Date: 06 Aug 2008
Time: 00:39:49

Comments:

I believe God's word is simple and not complicated. As we read the Bible and pray for discernment, I believe God shows us His truth in a very simple way. Not understand codes or historical events when we have not been there. I believe that a tribulation time will come. The early church started with a very persecuted time and I believe the end times will be the same. I do not buy the pre-rapture theory nor that one that Hank Hanegraaf is presenting. My question is, what about the two witnesses in Revelation that are caught up after being killed? What is Haank's answer to that question? I have never seen nor heard of this in history. Even though history often repeats itself, I believe the end times will be similiar but more pronounced. God said that He will not suffer us to wrath or great tribulation. I believe God will take those who are here, out from that. We will have confront persecution for who are here and not bow down to the ruler of this world. As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be the Day of the Lord. Noah was taken and then the judgement came. As lot was spared and Sodom was destroyed, so will us believers and followers of Christ be spared. The scriptures talk about the world being destroyed by fire. We are all waiting for these things to happen. It was will be a glorious Day when we are with our Lord. I think the enemy tries to confuse people who are reading God's word. Especially those who are in the most influencual positions. When in the end times things do not go as people described those events, people may be shaken and not trust God nor that Bible. When there is confusion, Satan loves to plant seeds of doubt in people minds. We need to be ready for the Day of our Lord, no matter how it all pans out.
 


Date: 28 Nov 2008
Time: 17:41:46

Comments:

Hanagraff told a girl on his radio "show" that it was okay for Christians to get tatoos and use them for the glory of God. Can you just see Jesus tatooed up and down his arms chest and back? Jesus was marked by a cat of nine tails, nailed to a cross that I might be forgiven my sin and saved for eternity. Can a man who believe tatoos can glorify our Lord be trusted?????


Date: 07 Feb 2009
Time: 14:05:31

Your Comments:

They are both wrong. Jesus comes back AFTER the tribulation. Matt. 24 .. Loud with lots of light.


Date: 28 Jun 2009
Time: 23:01:01

Your Comments:

I still am a dispensationalist. I read the Left Behind series. My only dispute with it, is that I believe that those who heard the gospel message before the "catching away" of Saints, both living and dead don't get a second chance during the seven years of tribulation. I still listen to Hank's programs and appreciate that he exposes false teachers who don't teach that belief in Christ's death, burial and resurection is the only way to salvation. On the other hand, I can not, with a clear conscience, support him finantialy knowing that he is teaching partial preterism that I disagree with. If he truely considers this to be a "secondary" issue that we can agree to disagree on, than I wish he would quit criticizing Tim LaHaye so vehemently.


Date: 11 Nov 2012
Time: 18:01:55

Your Comments:

First off, after years being raised in a dispensational style church as well as parents that believed those crazy notions of pre-trib vs post and VanImpe/H.Lindsey..afters years of studying the Bible MYSELF I progressively found it ALMOST all to be utter non-sense. In other words, I am NOT a FULL preterist but can understand how one arrives there also. However, just the notion that AD70 was the "Blessed hope" is depressing and do not see THAT as the END to the whole, even science shows us the earth and sun will one day be gone as all things DIE in this universe, what do people think, we'll be here forever having babies and experiencing wars and all this other crasiness and satan will not be thrown in the lake of fire-i.e, there's no "hope" in Full-Preterism" that comforts me-can't they see that?, its sad and I would be a "hopeless" Christian to think that is what God had to our desire of paradise restored and evil rid when the devil will be forever judged and this world of goodnevil gone. When reviewing old testament propresies -esp. Joel, You can see how God spoke about the "END" things just in that book's structure alone, as well as Zachariah and many others its just HOW to "piece" them 2gether that has caused the controversy. In Joel, we see as Peter's statement upholds the biblical truth of it all:"judgement BEGINS at the House of God"(or in/with) Israel, then the Church(individually or sanctification)-but in Joel the LAST judgement is with "those outside". In Joel we see the perfect outline how God would deal with the Jews(AD70)and THEN the NATIONS who were used by God to judge Israel-"Armageddon/GognMagog", etc.. As it was LITERAL then (i.e., AD70ish), so I also believe the "END"(as Jesus called the "Last DAY"-notice there's a Last Day and Last DayS) will be a cup of wrath building up unto the brim -as we see going on 2day-sin is rising as never before and the Gospel is reaching a Zenith -and the dregs poured out upon ALL NATIONS-it is on THAT day I believe the Resurection will LITERALLY take place!
, "in a twinkling of an eye"-How so, whether were just sitting here and ALL fall dead and find ourselves "where the heaven n earth found no place" at a judgement or some other systematic situation(s) idk yet, thats were it gets blurry in scripture. But this is where Jesus said OF THAT "DAY" knoweth NO MAN(Remember also as a side note that prophecy in the Messiah's day was "two-folded or two-pronged"-like in Israel/in Christ, David's covenant somewhat fulfilled by Solomon AND Jesus, as well as "the Prophet" of Moses was Joshua AND Jesus, etc)..the disciples knew Jewry would tumble to a new age BUT wondered WHEN Israel would be restored the Kingdom to which Jesus DOES NOT REBUKE them in Acts with "you got it all wrong guys" but RATHER, those TIMES N SEASONS WHICH ARE IN THE FATHER'S HANDS are not in your power to know" the same language Paul and the Gospel uses of His coming-Remeber, there is a point in Revelation where heaven MEETS earth", and the same is being told in Romans 9-11(esp. 11, and unto Jacob[Israel] God would restore a deliverer-DISTINGUISHING THEM FROM THE GENTILE BELIEVERS and terms like "Countrymen", meaning THEM as a NATION being SAVED and not just some sad "remnant of Pauls' day).." This world IS presently awaiting the LAST DAY I believe and read the scriptures so at present, just look at Israel, why all the commotion over that plot of land 2day and HOW it came out of nothing as a dead man from the grave, even their language was restored from nothingness(Ezk 37)?? Is it because the "principalities are at work and know that the END will occur there, knowing they have a short time, why else all the controversy and such commotion??..The Olivet prophecy dealt w/a LITERAL ISRAEL, why is it so hard 2 believe the same at the end? Not enough space to expound here, but I've been checking out something called "progressive-dispesationalism" which is similar to what I have found on my own studying-its actually primarilly PRETEST but the ending is being pieced together as Hanegraaf does not do in his book(s)!
but still upholds A LAST DAY" w/a ressurection as Mary said unto Jesus when discussing Lazurus. May God open all our eyes to truth and be NOT wise in our own conceits 4 He alone knows the end from the beginning.
 

 

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