Online Bible and Study Tools
Translate || Vine / Schaff || Alts/Vars/Criticism/Aramaic

 
 


End Times Chart


Introduction and Key

BOOKS:  BIBLICAL STUDIES (1500BC-AD70) / EARLY CHRISTIAN PRETERISM (AD50-1000) / FREE ONLINE BOOKS (AD1000-2008)



Church-State Relations and the Book of Revelation
An Introduction to The Parousia: A Careful Look at the New Testament Doctrine of the Lord's Second Coming
by James Stuart Russell (1878) // Written by
Todd Dennis, Curator
 


Modern Preterism
Modern Preterism Study Archive
Study Archive

Click For Site Updates Page

Free Online Books Page

Historical Preterism Main

Modern Preterism Main

Hyper Preterism Main

Preterist Idealism Main

Critical Article Archive Main

Church History's Preteristic Presupposition

Study Archive Main

Dispensationalist dEmEnTiA  Main

Josephus' Wars of the Jews Main

Online Study Bible Main

MODERN PRETERISTS
(Major Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)

Firmin Abauzit
Jay Adams
Luis Alcazar
Greg Bahnsen
Beausobre, L'Enfant
Jacques Bousset
John L. Bray
David Brewster
Dr. John Brown
Thomas Brown
Newcombe Cappe
David Chilton
Adam Clarke

Henry Cowles
Ephraim Currier
R.W. Dale
Gary DeMar
P.S. Desprez
Johann Eichhorn
Heneage Elsley
F.W. Farrar
Samuel Frost
Kenneth Gentry
Steve Gregg
Hugo Grotius
Francis X. Gumerlock
Henry Hammond
Hampden-Cook
Friedrich Hartwig
Adolph Hausrath
Thomas Hayne
J.G. Herder
Timothy Kenrick
J. Marcellus Kik
Samuel Lee
Peter Leithart
John Lightfoot
Benjamin Marshall
F.D. Maurice
Marion Morris
Ovid Need, Jr
Wm. Newcombe
N.A. Nisbett
Gary North
Randall Otto
Zachary Pearce
Andrew Perriman
Beilby Porteus
Ernst Renan
Gregory Sharpe
Fr. Spadafora
R.C. Sproul
Moses Stuart
Milton S. Terry
Herbert Thorndike
C. Vanderwaal
Foy Wallace
Israel P. Warren
Chas Wellbeloved
J.J. Wetstein
Richard Weymouth
Daniel Whitby
George Wilkins
E.P. Woodward
 

 

 

Defending the Indefensible

By Gary DeMar
President - American Vision
http://www.americanvision.org/

Gary DeMar Study Archive | Norman Geisler and "This Generation" | Norman Geisler, "You," & "Zechariah the Son of Berechiah" | Biblical Minimalism and the "History of Preterism" | Thomas Ice and the Time Texts | Will the Real Anti-Prophets Please Stand Up? | Time's Puff Piece: The Devil is in the Details | Dispensationalism : Being Left Behind | Zechariah 14 and the Coming of Christ | Defending the Indefensible | No Fear of the Text | The Passing Away of Heaven and Earth | Who or what is the Antichrist | Rapture Fever: Why Dispensationalism is Paralyzed | Identifying Antichrist | On Thin Ice | Using the Bible to Interpret the Bible | DeMar Articles

 

In 1988, John MacArthur wrote The Gospel According to Jesus, a controversial book in certain circles because he relied heavily on the views of Calvinistic writers to deal with the lordship salvation controversy. My respect for MacArthur grew because he was not afraid to take on those in his own dispensational camp who were teaching "defective theology" about discipleship. The book got rave reviews in Reformed circles even though MacArthur remains "a traditional premillennial dispensationalist."1 In addition, MacArthur, along with D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church and R. C. Sproul of Ligonier Ministries, joined forces to respond to the "Evangelicals and Catholics Together" movement, even though evangelical stalwarts like J. I. Packer and Charles Colson were involved.

In his most recent entry into modern theological debate, MacArthur has put his considerable reputation on the line by attempting to tackle the issue of eschatology as it relates to preterism. Preterists believe that the majority of New Testament prophetic texts refer to the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Not that he's the first to attempt a critique of preterism. Dave Hunt and Thomas Ice were early contestants. Their undertakings, however, to remain charitable, were less than satisfying.

For a number of years I have been trying to engage big-name dispensationalists in a public debate on the topic of Bible prophecy. And for those who don't want to debate, I proposed a discussion forum. I wrote a detailed book on the subject, Last Days Madness, in an attempt to lay all of my eschatological cards on the table and show that dispensationalism cannot be defended biblically. I was hoping that someone would at least deal with the arguments presented in Last Days Madness in an honest way. So when I saw The Second Coming: Signs of Christ's Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur, I was encouraged. Finally, I thought, MacArthur will apply the same hermeneutical model to eschatology that he applied to justification by faith and the debate over Roman Catholicism and abandon dispensational premillennialism. No, I didn't really believe that he would, but I hoped he might honestly deal with the issues. He doesn't.

A Debater's Trick

Using a debater's trick, MacArthur begins his analysis of nondispensational eschatology by assessing full-preterism. Full-preterists believe that all the New Testament prophetic passages were fulfilled in A.D. 70. Thus, there is no future bodily return of Christ. The resurrection is also given a non-traditional interpretation. Of course, I have no problem with someone debating the merits of full-preterism or partial preterism. R.C. Sproul engages in a debate with full preterism in his The Last Days According to Jesus, and Ken Gentry has written extensively on the subject. I've had numerous discussion with full-preterist writers and have voiced my dissatisfaction with a number of their interpretations. While MacArthur admits that partial preterism is not heresy, he goes on to write that "it is clear that the hermeneutical approach taken by [partial] preterists is what laid the foundation for the hyper-preterist error."2 The old slippery-slope argument.

The same argument could be used against a dispensationalist like MacArthur. It would go like this: "It is clear that the hermeneutical approach taken by dispensationalists is what laid the foundation for the hyperdispensational error." Hyper or ultra-dispensationalism is so classified based on when the church age begins, either Acts 2, Acts 9, Acts 13, or Acts 28. Traditional dispensationalists don't like being included with hyperdispensationalists. Dispensational writer Charles F. Baker writes explaining these dispensational divisions:

Since there is little practical difference between the Acts 9 and the Acts 13 views, these positions are usually considered in general as one. Those who hold the Acts 2 position like to refer to those who hold the Acts 13 or Acts 28 views as extreme or ultra-dispensationalists. Ryrie, who holds the Acts 2 position, refers to those of the Acts 13 persuasion as Moderate Ultradispensationalists, and those who hold the Acts 28 position as Extreme Ultra-dispensationalists, although he admits that his own view is considered to be ultradispensational by antidispensationalists.3

Preterists could make all dispensationalists look bad by pointing out that there are hyper-dispensationalists out there, and since they are heretical, their closest relatives­Acts 2 dispensationalists­are equally suspicious. One leads inevitably to the other. Furthermore, following MacArthur's logic, dispensationalists could be turned into heretics by observing that Jehovah's Witnesses and dispensationalists are premillennial. Premillennialism, therefore, leads to cultism.

Dispensationalism and premillennialism should be judged on their own merits. This does not mean that a case cannot be made for a logical relationship between dispensationalism and hyper-dispensationalism, but each position should first stand on its own. Nowhere in Last Days Madness do I drag hyperdispensationalism into the debate. I deal with dispensationalism on its own terms.

Look Who's Hyper Now!

The same "hyper" argument can be applied to Calvinism. Seeing that MacArthur is a Calvinist, I can just hear some of his Arminian friends saying, "It is clear that the hermeneutical approach taken by Calvinists like John MacArthur is what laid the foundation for the hyper-Calvinism error." Amillennialist David Engelsma, also a preterist critic, follows a similar slippery slope argument. Engelsma writes that partial "preterism will become consistent preterism."4 This is curious coming from Engelsma since he defends Calvinism against those who maintain that Calvinism inevitably leads to hyper-Calvinism or that Calvinism is in fact hyper-Calvinism. He writes in Hyper-Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel,

In most cases the charge "hyper-Calvinist" is nothing but a deceptive attack upon Calvinism itself. Someone who hates Calvinism, or the uncompromising, consistent defense of Calvinism; yet he hesitates to attack Calvinism openly and forthrightly, and therefore he disguises his attack as an attack on "hyper-Calvinism" and "hyper-Calvinists."5

This is exactly what Engelsma does in his attack on preterism. Instead of dealing with the detailed arguments of preterists, he immediately attacks hyper-preterism as if partial and hyper-preterism are synonymous. Engelsma even attacks a non-preterist, Andrew Sandlin of Chalcedon, accusing him of being a full preterist because he shares other theological distinctives with partial preterists. Very poor scholarship indeed. And Engelsma is a professor at a seminary! Let's modify the hyper-Calvinist paragraph above by substituting hyper-preterist for hyper-Calvinist.

In most cases the charge "hyper-preterist" is nothing but a deceptive attack upon preterism itself. Someone who hates preterism, or the uncompromising, consistent defense of preterism; yet he hesitates to attack preterism openly and forthrightly, and therefore he disguises his attack as an attack on "hyper-preterism" and "hyper-preterists."

Engelsma and MacArthur know that they cannot deal with partial preterism on its own terms because it would show how each of their prophetic systems cannot stand biblical analysis. So they attack an extreme form of the position, hoping no one will notice. This tactic is often successful because most people are ignorant of the facts.

Every theological group has its "ultras." Paul addresses this when he asks, "Should we remain in sin, in order that grace might increase?" (Rom. 6:1) and "Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?" (6:15). There were some who claimed that salvation by grace through faith was a license for lawlessness. "May it never be!" Is salvation by grace through faith heretical because some people misapply its tenets? May it never be. Calvinism, dispensationalism, premillennialism, and preterism should be studied and evaluated on their own merits, not in terms of how far some have taken a position.

Lightweight Scholarship

The Second Coming does not compare favorably with The Gospel According to Jesus. Detailed analysis and comparative study are exchanged for superficial and misleading rhetoric. MacArthur scrupulously avoids the heart of the debate over the time texts. He morphs "near" and "shortly" into "imminent" without ever making a case for how this can be done exegetically. Including an appendix by Arthur W. Pink on "The Imminent Return of the Redeemer" (1918) adds nothing to the debate, especially since Pink later changed his views on eschatology. If God wanted to convey that Jesus could return at "any moment," He would have directed the biblical writers to choose Greek words that mean "any moment" instead of "near" and "shortly." He didn't.

Consider James 5:8­9, a passage that MacArthur uses to support his contention that Jesus could come "at any moment," even though 2000 years have passed.6 "You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand" (v. 8). "At hand," or "near," cannot be made to mean "any moment." "At hand" is defined for us by the Bible in the next verse: "Behold, the Judge is standing right at the door" (v. 9). "At hand" = "right at the door." How far from the door is Jesus in Revelation 3:20? Being "right at the door" means being close enough to knock.

MacArthur is either oblivious to the debate surrounding this issue or he tactically decided to steer his readers around the topic so as not to raise a very big red flag.

A Hurried Writer

The book reads as if it were written in a hurry. For example, in one place he writes that preterists "ultimately depart from and nullify the strict literal sense of Matthew 24:34," while on the previous page he chides preterists for insisting that Matthew 24:34 should be interpreted with "wooden literalness."7 MacArthur should have studied how "this generation" is used elsewhere in the New Testament. He didn't. Others have. "This generation" always refers­without exception­to the generation to whom Jesus is speaking.8 Since the meaning of "this generation" is crucial for establishing the proper time setting for the Olivet Discourse, MacArthur should have spent considerable time justifying his interpretation. He calls the preterist interpretation of "this generation" a "misunderstanding"9 without ever dealing with the extensive arguments preterists use to defend their position. Preterists are not the only ones who have this "misunderstanding." Here are three non-preterist examples:

"[T]he obvious meaning of the words 'this generation' is the people contemporary with Jesus. Nothing can be gained by trying to take the word in any sense other than its normal one: in Mark (elsewhere in 8:12, 9:19) the word always has this meaning."10

"[This generation] can only with the greatest difficulty be made to mean anything other than the generation living when Jesus spoke."11

"The significance of the temporal reference has been debated, but in Mark 'this generation' clearly designates the contemporaries of Jesus (see on Chs. 8:12, 38; 9:19) and there is no consideration from the context which lends support to any other proposal. Jesus solemnly affirms that the generation contemporary with his disciples will witness the fulfillment of his prophetic word, culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem and the dismantling of the Temple."12

Why doesn't MacArthur attempt to refute these non-preterist scholars? Do they misunderstand the clear teaching of Scripture?

Will the Real Literalist Please Stand Up

MacArthur states that interpreting "this generation" in a "wooden literalness" fashion would mean that "the rest of the Olivet Discourse must be spiritualized or otherwise interpreted figuratively in order to explain how Christ's prophecies could all have been fulfilled by A.D. 70 without His returning bodily to earth."13 Do preterists spiritualize the events described by Jesus in Matthew 24? Not at all! They compare Scripture with Scripture. We let the Bible interpret the Bible. There were literal earthquakes (Matt. 27:54; 28:2; Acts 16:26) and literal famines (Acts 11:28; cf. Rom. 8:35), just like Jesus predicted (Matt. 24:7). Paul tells us that the "gospel" literally had been preached "to all the nations" in his day (Rom. 16:25­26; see Col. 1:23), just like Jesus predicted (Matt. 24:14). This says nothing of the promise by Jesus that the literal temple would be destroyed before the last apostle died (Matt. 16:27­28) and that first-century generation passed away (24:34).

Conclusion

Last Days Madness answers every argument raised by MacArthur, arguments which he studiously avoids addressing in this poorly conceived book. Some might claim that MacArthur is unaware of my work, and so he was unable to respond to my arguments. This debate has been around for centuries. Anyone writing on this topic should be aware of the current literature. And since he quotes from an internet article by me, he knows what's going on. MacArthur doesn't even interact with R. C. Sproul's The Last Days According to Jesus. John MacArthur might be able to fool the dispensational faithful, but he won't even be able to do that much longer. The Second Coming is just one more example where dispensationalism cannot be defended when principles of sound scholarship are followed and applied.


NOTES

1. John MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus: What Does Jesus Mean When He says "Follow Me"? (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1988), 25.

2. John F. MacArthur, The Second Coming: Signs of Christ's Return and the End of the Age (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 1999), 223.

3. Charles F. Baker, A Dispensational Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Grace Bible College Publications, 1972), 6.

4. David J. Engelsma, "The Preterism of Christian Reconstruction (2)," The Standard Bearer (July 1999), 389.

5. David Engelsma, Hyper-Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel (Grand Rapids, MI: Reformed Free Publishing Association, 1980), 5.

6. MacArthur, The Second Coming, 51.

7. John MacArthur, The Second Coming: Signs of Christ's Return and the End of the Age (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 1999), 81, 80.

8. Gary DeMar, Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church, 4th ed. (Atlanta, GA: American Vision, 1999), 55­60, 183­88.

9. MacArthur, The Second Coming, 219.

10. Robert G. Bratcher and Eugene A. Nida, A Translator's Handbook of the Gospel of Mark (New York: United Bible Societies, 1961), 419.

11. D.A. Carson, "Matthew" in The Expositor's Bible Commentary, gen. ed. Frank E. Gaebelein, 12 vols. (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1985), 8:507.

12. William L. Lane, Commentary on the Gospel of Mark (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1974), 480.

13. MacArthur, The Second Coming, 80.


Controverting the Incontrovertible  - A Brief Reply to "Defending the Indefensible," Gary DeMar's review of John MacArthur's recent book The Second Coming

Phil Johnson, Monday, September 27, 1999


first read Gary DeMar's "review" of John MacArthur's The Second Coming a few weeks ago and (since I edited MacArthur's book when it was in the manuscript stage) I was somewhat amused by DeMar's remarks. He is, to put it mildly, not happy with MacArthur's book.

It appears his pique is chiefly owing to the fact that John MacArthur had the unmitigated gall to write a book on Bible prophecy without addressing Gary DeMar in particular. DeMar is convinced his own work Last Days Madness (4th ed.) is incontrovertibly the definitive work on biblical eschatology, and he thinks one simply cannot "deal honestly with the issues" related to Bible prophecy without making Demar and his 4th edition the center of one's eschatalogical universe. DeMar complains that for years he has tried desperately "to engage big-name dispensationalists in a public debate on the topic of Bible prophecy." And MacArthur (whom DeMar evidently classes as a "big-name dispensationalist") had the unpardonable effrontery to ignore him. So now Gary is in quite a huff about it. He both starts and ends his review by complaining about how inexcusable it was for MacArthur to ignore his book, and a pouting tone therefore sets the mood for the whole review.

Well, too bad. Despite how DeMar characterizes MacArthur's book, the book was not, and was never intended to be, a polemic treatment of eschatological issues the way The Gospel According to Jesus was a polemic treatment of soteriological issues. (And the last paragraph of MacArthur's Introduction says so explicitly.) The Second Coming was simply MacArthur's exposition of the Olivet Discourse. Ninety percent of the book is just straightforward teaching drawn from the biblical text, adapted from MacArthur's sermons as they were first delivered to his own congregation. It is misleading to characterize the book as having a purpose that is primarily polemic.

In other words, DeMar misconstrues the whole thrust of the book when he claims MacArthur "attempt[ed] to tackle the issue of eschatology as it relates to preterism." He did not. He touched pretty lightly on preterism. At the very outset of the book, and once again about halfway through the book, MacArthur did spend several pages dealing with hyper-preterism (or "full preterism," as some of its advocates prefer). But to claim preterism was MacArthur's main target, and the raison d'etre for the book, is to dissemble. In fact, two of the main negative references to preterism that kindled DeMar's outrage were passing remarks contained in end-notes where MacArthur was simply making the (rather obvious) point that "the hermeneutical approach taken by preterists is what laid the foundation for the hyper-preterist error" (endnote 1, p. 224).

MacArthur treats hyper-preterism as an opposite but (at least) equal error to the hype and sensationalism of Hal Lindsey, the date-setters, et al.—which error MacArthur also deplores and devotes even more space to debunking than he gives to his critique of hyper-preterism. MacArthur aims at a balanced approach that rejects both extremes. DeMar is apparently so myopic that he can spot error only on one side of the spectrum. And that same dim vision blurs his reading of MacArthur. He evidently believed—or else wanted his readers to think—that MacArthur's main aim was debunking DeMar's position. (Or at the very least, DeMar thinks this should have been MacArthur's focus.) Sorry to burst your bubble, Mr. DeMar, but I don't think MacArthur even noticed that you were spoiling for a fight with him.

Furthermore, although DeMar harrumphs a lot about the importance of careful scholarship, it is clear that he did not read MacArthur's book very attentively. He complains,

The book reads as if it were written in a hurry. For example, in one place he writes that preterists "ultimately depart from and nullify the strict literal sense of Matthew 24:34," while on the previous page he chides preterists for insisting that Matthew 24:34 should be interpreted with "wooden literalness."

The only thing here that was written too hurriedly is DeMar's "review." What Demar misconstrues as a contradiction is quite clearly nothing of the kind when examined in its context. MacArthur is simply pointing out the irony of the fact that preterists insist on a literal interpretation of v. 34, arguing on that basis that the "great tribulation," "the abomination of desolation," etc. (Matt. 24:4-29) were fulfilled in AD 70. Yet (except for the hyper-preterists), they see a yet-future fulfillment of the appearing of Christ and the gathering of the elect described in verses 30-31. MacArthur writes: "So in essence they ultimately depart from and nullify the strict literal sense of Matthew 24:34 anyway." (Notice the word "anyway," which DeMar conveniently omitted from the snippet he quoted.) In other words, MacArthur was pointing out that no one but a hyper-preterist really believes "all these things" in Matthew 24:3-31 were literally and completely fulfilled in that "generation" of people living in the time of Christ. So the partial preterist's appeal to the literal sense of Matthew 24:34 is not a very strong argument after all.

MacArthur's argument on that point is perfectly clear if one's reading involves more than a cursory glance. Perhaps DeMar's imaginary "contradiction" is simply another result of his foggy vision rather than a careless or hurried reading of the book. But if it is neither of those, then it is a deliberate misrepresentation of MacArthur.

Whether it's deliberate or just a result of Demar's sloppiness and failing eyesight, his review badly distorts and caricatures MacArthur's book rather than describing it accurately and fairly. Combine that fact with DeMar's smug certainty that he has already written the last word on biblical eschatology (until his 5th ed. comes out). Add his chip-on-the-shoulder stance, suggesting that no one else should even bother writing about any eschatological issues unless they first go toe to toe with him—and there you have the main reasons Gary DeMar deserves to be ignored.

What do YOU think ?

Submit Your Comments For Posting Here
Comment Box Disabled For Security


Date:
03 Sep 2004
Time:
15:01:48

Comments

I'm sorry but although MacArthur is not giving a detailed, specific verse by verse, text by text explanation it is within scripture. I believe in the raputre before the tribulation, i believe after the rapture a 3 1/2 years of peace then 3 1/2 years of tribulation, I believe after that a 1,000 year literal millenium where Christ will rule upon His bodily Second Coming. I believe Israel will be restored in that time. I don't believe that the Church is Israel Spiritual. I believe in most eschatalogical events and prophecies will be literal and others symbolical. Rev. Joel Sanabria, M.Th.


Date: 26 Apr 2005
Time: 12:26:47

Comments:

This sounds exactly like the debates I've had with the Dispensationalists. They gloss over the details of the arguments given on behalf of Preterism. They refer me to books to 'explain' their position which simply rehash and again don't deal specifically with the individual verse arguments. I looked up ALL the words GENEA and they all mean contemporaries, not race. Doing all the work like this and much more and then just being ignored, or being brushed off is frustrating to say the least. The Pastors don't have the time to go into the details. Many don't read Greek. They control the churches. Where do individual believers in Preterism go without looking like their beliefs are from outerspace ? Without looking divisive ? Our arguments are glossed over, and generalized when we are pointing out specifics, being accused of being too symbolic or too literal depending on the passage seems typical. The bias of the mind amazes me. Only looking up tons of words in Thayer and BAG conv
Steve K.


Date: 03 Oct 2010
Time: 21:54:07

Your Comments:

I wonder why if Dispensationalist like John MacArthur are so sure of their system, DO NOT debate DeMar openly and publicly. The answer is: BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WILL LOOSE THE DEBATE. It need to be clearly stated: Dispensationalists DO NOT have solid arguments to MAKE THEIR CASE. Simply as that. And that is why THEY FEEL SO FRUSTRATED when people like Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry point out the INCOHERENCES of dispensational eschatology.
 


Date: 03 Oct 2010
Time: 21:54:07

Your Comments:

I wonder why if Dispensationalist like John MacArthur are so sure of their system, DO NOT debate DeMar openly and publicly. The answer is: BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WILL LOOSE THE DEBATE. It need to be clearly stated: Dispensationalists DO NOT have solid arguments to MAKE THEIR CASE. Simply as that. And that is why THEY FEEL SO FRUSTRATED when people like Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry point out the INCOHERENCES of dispensational eschatology.



Click For Index Page

Free Online Books Historical Preterism Modern Preterism Study Archive Critical Articles Dispensationalist dEmEnTiA  Main Josephus Church History Hyper Preterism Main

Email PreteristArchive.com's Sole Developer and Curator, Todd Dennis  (todd @ preteristarchive.com) Opened in 1996
http://www.preteristarchive.com