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Preterist-Idealism: Matthew 16:27-28 / Todd Dennis - Matthew 16:27-28 is NOT a "Preterist Time Indicator" pointing to AD70 (2008) "If AD70 figures into the imagery of Matthew 16:27-28 at all (even though it is not mentioned, or even so much as hinted at in the text), it would be as a visible, external show of these very personal revelations (per Israel’s entire role as visible schoolmaster of invisible things). This is also likely considering both Jesus and Paul's correlation of the fall of the temple with the death of the body (John 2:19 ; 1 Cor. 3:17)"


PRETERIST-IDEALISM

JESUS CHRIST IS THE FOCAL POINT OF ALL ESCHATOLOGY

Jesus calls Himself the Eschaton or the Telos SEVEN TIMES in the book of Revelation

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17


Israel's Transition Points to Our Transition


ISRAEL'S HISTORICAL THINGS SEEN (Preterist) ARE OUTWARD SHOWS OF JESUS CHRIST (Idealism)
THE HISTORICAL
IS SCHOOLMASTER OF
THE ETERNAL (Not "Re-Fulfillment")

PRETERIST-IDEALISM (PI, aka Modern Idealism) -  A) Umbrella term covering those who see the true focus of Bible prophecy as the work of Jesus Christ throughout all ages.  Historical fulfillments in the history of natural Israel - notably in the events of Moses' and Jesus' generations - are seen as the outward "typological" show of the everlasting work of Christ.  B) Though Idealism has been taught by spiritually minded writers throughout the Christian era (such as the Allegorists, Quakers, Swedeborgians, Medieval Monks, and countless others), very seldom have forms utilizing a "Preterist modifier" been published.   Saint Augustine is considered the father of Idealism, though systems anchored historically by the Preterist view are only now being developed among Modern Preterists.  Those forms of Idealism without the "Preterist modifier" often qualify as Historicism or Futurism  C) The spectrum of known systems range from those more heavily Idealist (looking to Christ for the substance of prophecy) to those more heavily Preterist (looking to history for the substance of prophecy).   (Fundamentally neither preterist nor futurist ; PreteristArchive.com's native approach ;  More Information Here)


LATEST ADDITIONS :

 

Revelation in Natural Israel's History
Seen in the Land Promises

Natural Israel's History as a Parable from Beginning to Very End : The natural fulfillment of the prophecies of the land of promise (Josh. 21:43-45 "all came to pass") is not the climax (Heb. 11:13 "these died not having received the promises"), but just the outward show of the true substance to which it pointed (Heb. 11:16 "they aspire to a better land -- a heavenly one..  He hath prepared a city for them."), which can be received in Jesus Christ alone (II Cor. 1:20  "For all the promises of God, whatever their number, have their confirmation in Him")

 


Jerusalem as the Heart

Hebrews 12:25-29 And Our New Creation in Christ
(Historically called the "Tropological Sense" of Scripture)

Jerusalem as the Heart

OLD/NEW JERUSALEM - THE OLD/NEW HEART (OLD IN BONDAGE ; NEW IN LIBERTY)
 
"And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem"
Zechariah 14:8
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"
Jesus in John 7:38

In chapter four of the letter to the Galatians, Paul equates both views of Jerusalem with heart conditions: liberty vs. bondage of the soul.  By doing so, he has beautifully illuminated the distinctions between the inward states of those with and without Jesus Christ.   This messianic meaning, he declares, was the intended context of that historical "allegory."  And lest we try to externalize Paul's intent in Galatians 4, seeking to remove its meaning from our inward transition from darkness to light, earlier in the chapter he gives a clear indication of context:   And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.  With such overt references, its a wonder that anyone could fail to see how the Spirit is likewise fully speaking to us today in the Word through the historical "allegory" of the fall of the old Jerusalem!  Surely, preconceived notions afflict preterists just like they do futurists.

 


"Praise the Lord, O Jerusalem: praise thy God, O Sion"

How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people!
How is she become as a widow! She that was great among the nations,
and princess among the provinces, How is she become tributary!
She weepeth sore in the night, and her tears are on her cheeks:
among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her.

Lamentations 1:1

"O priests, comfort ye, comfort ye my people. Speak to the heart of Jerusalem, and say that she has received of the Lord's hand double for her sins" (Isa. xl. 1,2, LXX.)

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart."

"O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?"

John Cassian (420)
"The tropological sense is the moral explanation which has to do with improvement of life and practical teaching, as if we were to understand by these two covenants practical and theoretical instruction, or at any rate as if we were to want to take Jerusalem or Sion as the soul of man, according to this: "Praise the Lord, O Jerusalem: praise thy God, O Sion." (
Conferences)

Peter J. Leithart
 ""[T]ropologically, the history of Jerusalem can be understood as a model for the history of the soul (secundum tropologiam).  Just as David conquered Jerusalem and set up the Lord's throne there, so Jesus, His Son, conquers the inner city of the sinner and consecrates him as a saint, a holy one." (Ascent to Love, pp. 22)

Isaac Pennington (1658)
"Now for the sakes of such as have been truly exercised in their spirits by the Spirit of the Lord, (and have felt the powerful work of his grace, and a building raised up by him) and may yet be further exercised, I shall add this. Jerusalem was a type of an inward building in the spirits of God's people"

Writers on the "Tropological Sense" of Jerusalem



Total fulfillment of all of Israel's shadows, which are but applications of eternal realities in Christ

Todd Dennis

  • Matthew 26:64 is NOT a "Preterist Time Indicator" Pointing to AD70 "In short, the usage of "Apo Arti" in Matthew 26:64 [Apo ("from" - Strongs 575) and Arti ("now on" - Strong's 737)] is highly suggestive of the themes that have been previously offered at this blog ; that is, a series of revelatory recognitions of the power and glory of Jesus Christ's dominance by friend and foe alike. Though the typically pret-friendly Weymouth translation would like to make Jesus say "later on, you will see.." this is not really honest. I would rather say that it was simply a mistake, but I find it impossible to believe that neither Richard Francis Weymouth ("If this belief ever obtains general acceptance the earlier date of the Apocalypse will also be regarded as fully established. For it will then be seen that the book describes beforehand events which took place in 70 A.D.") nor Earnest Hampden-Cook (co-editor and author of "The Christ Has Come") were aware of the importance of this passage regarding their Preterist assumptions. However, not only is there no sense of futurity in this very emphatic Greek phrase, but rather we see quite the opposite."

  • Matthew 10:23 is NOT a "Preterist Time Indicator" pointing to AD70 (2008) "It has become a working assumption of Hyper Preterism that the "coming" passages in the New Testament refer to AD70. And the eisegetical presupposition that Matthew 10:23 is a "(Hyper) Preterist time indicator" is considered to be unassailable, even though there is not a hint of reference to AD70 in the text or context of the chapter from which to support this conclusion."

  • Matthew 16:27-28 is Not About AD70 (2008) "Why would we expect the Lord to perform his acts of power and glory just once — be it in the past or the future? What good does that do all the other generations?  It seems to me that all prophecy ultimately finds its accomplishment in Christ internally and personally, as opposed to externally and historically. Even the cross must be received, and each follower must bear it as Jesus said."

  • On Leaving Full Preterism After a Decade (2006)

  • An Interview with Virgil Vaduva on Preterist Terminology and Hybrids (2006)

  • Hebrews 12:25-29: Jerusalem as the Heart (2006) "Looking closer at the "promised land," we can see how the spiritual intent was revealed through fulfilled prophecy in Israel's day.  Though there was an appearance in the promises to Abraham of an ultimate fulfillment in reference to the everlasting possession of a particular tract of land in history, we know from New Testament revelation that the intent was regarding spiritual things in Christ.  Though the promise found natural fulfillment in "Preterist Israel", it was given to signify the true, greater fulfillment in "Ideal Israel" -- with actual participants from all nations, throughout all generations (including ours).

Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him

That is not to say, again, that the land promises weren't totally fulfilled in typological fulfillment of the promise to Israel (Joshua 11.23; Joshua 21.43,45; Joshua 23.14; 1 Kings 4.21; 1 Kings 8.56)... just that this possession of the natural land only looked to something eternal in nature.

Heb 11:9,16 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly.

This same principle is true of all visible, historical signs.. such as circumcision (which was a physical sign of spiritual things, Ro 4:11), the resurrection of Christ (which was a physical sign of spiritual things, Mt 12:39) and the fall of Jerusalem (which was also a physical sign of spiritual things, Mt 24:30)."

"We should not, however, bypass the shadows and only focus on the ultimate fulfillments, as though the accomplishment of the outward show is irrelevant.   Likewise, we should not consider the accomplishment of the natural to be the substance of what is being revealed, as though the giving of the sign is the substance of the sign... after all, symbols do not symbolize themselves." 

  • Hyper Preterist response: Samuel Frost : Todd Dennis and Preteristic Idealism (2007) "Just because some universalists are using preterism for a framework that they think helps there case does not make Dennis' accusations here true.  Dennis should be above such types of obvious fallacies. "

Nathan DuBois

  • Scripture Interprets Scripture: Part One - The Covenants, The Jerusalems, The Flesh and The Spirit "Since most preterists agree that the kingdom is within and written on the heart and that the Spirit brought us to life and into an eternal covenant (the new covenant on the heart), then isn't the description of the Jerusalem from above warranted and accurate as a portrayal of our heart in Christ vs. the Jerusalem from below as our heart under the law?"

  • The Nature of the Christ: The Dilemma of Chronology "Jesus was Messiah from the foundation, He did not become the Messiah only after He did the work. He did the work to reveal Himself as Messiah.. Are we really putting the "Type" as being the purpose and fulfillment over the "anti-type" to which they pointed?

  • Why I Needed to Repent: A Letter to a Friend... Among Friends (2006) "Am I saying full preterists are the Pharisees of today? NO! But I am saying I AM ONE! I was so caught up in the system of things that I could SEE that I was missing, and causing others to miss, the things that can only be seen by the heart. I saw the purpose and will of God in AD 70, the "new" (though very old) law of God being advented, but I missed the heart behind it. I have been guilty of Phariseeism."

  • God, The Judge of the Heart (2006) "The gospel is living, it is active. Today men are judged righteous or unrighteous by being "in Christ" or not.  Judgment accompanied the kingdom because it was at the "revelation of Christ" in AD 70, to the world, that men were judged by the gospel vs. the law. "

  • My Thoughts and Understanding of Preterist Idealism (2006) "Any theology which looks to the temporal things as its finality, any theology which takes ANY scripture and applies them to the temporal realm, and does not apply them to the spiritual truth behind it for which it was written, is an incorrect theology."

  • Blog: Nate4OneNation - "Where do we put the value of the truth. In the event? Or the pre-existing fact, kept in secret, from the very beginning. Is it us in AD 2006 seeing the cross made of wood, and the temple made of stone that crumbled, that can boast, because of those events (AD 30-70), that our salvation is true? Or was it true, because God declared it before the foundation of the world ever existed."

John Hedges

  • The Preterist Train (2005) "Instead of being “TIMING” people, let us rather be known as the ones who proclaim the NATURE of our present kingdom. Lets go back to the parables of the kingdom once again, concentrating on what the Bible really says about the NATURE of the kingdom in which we NOW RESIDE."

John Noē - Preterist-Idealist

  • He Never Left "..if you insist on limiting the comings of Jesus to only two times, then this second time occurred, chronologically, when Jesus came and appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:4-5) or to John on the isle of Patmos (Rev. 1). How do you count or discount those comings of Jesus?—and there are more."  My working definition for “a coming of Jesus” is this: it’s a personal and bodily intervention and/or manifestation of Jesus into the life of an individual, a group, or a nation on this earth. As we shall see, there are many different types of comings for different purposes, and they occur at different times and places.  Some are visible appearances; some are invisible interventions."

  • An Exegetical Basis for a Preterist-Idealist Understanding of the Book of Revelation (2007) “The revelation of Jesus Christ” (Rev 1:1) has a fuller significance and deeper character beyond its AD 70 eschatological fulfillment.  Consequently, the preterist notion that it only applies to AD 70 when Christ supposedly came in “finality” is a weakness to be amended.  And in a preterist-idealist synthesis, the strength of idealism remains that it “secures its relevance for all periods of the church’s history.”  But its major weakness—i.e. “its refusal to see a firm historical anchorage”— is removed.  That missing anchorage is supplied by Revelation’s A.D-70 fulfillment." 

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