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AD70 Dispensationalism: According to that view, AD70 was the end of 'this age' and the start of the 'age to come'.    Those who lived before AD70 could only 'see in part' and such, lacking the resurrection and redemptive blessings which supposedly came only when Herod's Temple in Jerusalem fell.    Accordingly, AD70 was not only the end of Old Testament Judaism, but it was also the end of the revelation of Christianity as seen in the New Testament.

HYPER PRETERISM

"Full preterist" material is being archived for balanced representation of all preterist views, but is classified under the theological term hyper (as in beyond the acceptable range of tolerable doctrines) at this website.  The classification of all full preterism as Hyper Preterism (HyP) is built upon well over a decade of intense research at PreteristArchive.com, and the convictions of the website curator (a former full preterist pastor).  The HyP theology of final resurrection and consummation in the fall of Jerusalem, with its dispensational line in AD70 (end of old age, start of new age), has never been known among authors through nearly 20 centuries of Christianity leading up to 1845, when the earliest known full preterist book was written.  Even though there may be many secondary points of agreement between Historical/Modern Preterism and Hyper Preterism, their premises are undeniably and fundamentally different.

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED AS "HYPER PRETERIST"



Systematic Hyper Preterism
(aka "Full Preterism")



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Jesus: "It is finished" (AD30)
cf. Hebrews 10:19-22

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Hyper Preterism: Defining "Hyper Preterism"- Criticisms from the Inside - Criticisms from the Outside || Progressive Pret | Regressive Pret | Former Full Preterists | Pret Scholars | Normative Pret | Reformed Pret | Pret Idealism | Pret Universalism

William Bell
Max King
Don Preston
Larry Siegle
Kurt Simmons
Ed Stevens
 

SOME DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES OF SYSTEMATIZED HYPER PRETERISM

It is important to keep in mind that many ideas and doctrines full preterism appeals to - such as the complete end of the Old Covenant world in AD70 - are by no means distinctive to that view.   Many non HyPs believe this as well, so one need not embrace the Hyper Preterist system in order to endorse this view.   Following are exceptional doctrines which, so far as I've seen, are only taught by adherents of Hyper Preterism.:

DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY STANDARD FULL PRETERISM

  • All Bible Prophecy was Fulfilled By AD70

  • Atonement Incomplete at Cross ; Complete at AD70

  • The Supernatural Power of Evil Ended in AD70

  • The Spirit of Antichrist was Destroyed in AD70

  • "The Consummation of the Ages" Came in AD70

  • "The Millennium" is in the Past, From AD30 to AD70

  • Nothing to be Resurrected From in Post AD70 World ; Hades Destroyed

  • The Christian Age Began in AD70 ; Earth Will Never End

  • "The Day of the Lord" was Israel's Destruction ending in AD70

  • The "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ Took Place in AD70-ish

  • The Great Judgment took place in AD70 ; No Future Judgment

  • The Law, Death, Sin, Devil, Hades, etc. Utterly Defeated in AD70

  • "The Resurrection" of the Dead and Living is Past, Having Taken Place in AD70

  • The Context of the Entire Bible is Pre-AD70 ; Not Written To Post AD70 World

DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY VARIOUS FORMS
(under construction)

  • Baptism was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Lord's Prayer was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Lord's Supper was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Holy Spirit's Paraclete Work Ceased in AD70 (Cessationism)

  • The Consummation in AD70 Caused Church Offices to Cease (Cessationism)

  • The Resurrection in AD70 Changed the "Constitutional Principle" of Marriage (Noyesism)

  • Israel and Humanity Delivered into Ultimate Liberty in AD70 (TransmillennialismTM)

  • The Judgment in AD70 Reconciled All of Mankind to God ; All Saved (Preterist Universalism)

  • Adam's Sin No Longer Imputed in Post AD70 World ; No Need to be Born Again (Preterist Universalism)

  • When Jesus Delivered the Kingdom to the Father in AD70, He Ceased Being The Intermediary (Pantelism/Comprehensive Grace?)

  • The Book of Genesis is an Apocalypse; is About Creation of First Covenant Man, not First Historical Man (Covenantal Preterism)

 

The Manifestation of the Sons of God

By Mike Krall

Who are the true children of the promise? Who are the true circumcision? Who are the true Jews and who are of the synagogue of Satan? These questions may seem to have an obvious answer to any Christian today but it was not so during the first century. The Judeaizers were claiming that unless one became a Jew by being circumcised after the manner of Moses  there was no claiming to be part of the covenants of promise. When one sees the significance of this and what took place during the transitional period  between the cross and the destruction of Jerusalem, which consummated the Old Covenant, it sheds some light on what Paul meant by the manifestation of the sons of God in Romans 8.

In almost all of the epistles of the New Testament some reference is made to  the conflict between the Jews of that day and the Christians. For example in Galatians Paul is dealing with the very issue of what the Christian's relationship to the Old Covenant is and whether or not one needs to be circumcized after the manner of Moses to be saved. Then in Ephesians after Paul talks about the middle wall of partition being taken away in Christ and the Gentiles that were afar off are now brought nigh unto God. Then in the beginning  of chapter 3 Paul says "FOR THIS CAUSE I am a prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles."

One does not have to read too far in the book of Acts in following Paul's journeys to see that he was persecuted by the Jews because of his preaching that there is only one hope of Israel and it included the Gentiles also. Then in the Thessalonian letters Paul specifically deals those that troubled the Thessalonians and how God would repay them for the wrath of God "has come upon them to the uttermost."  In the first letter to the Thessalonians it is of real significance because there we read Paul saying that it was the Jews that "both killed the Lord, and their own prophets" and "forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved" and then he says that they have "filled up their sins..." Then in the second letter he speaks in the first chapter how  it is "a righteous thing with God to recompense those that trouble you." Then we have the letter to the Hebrews which was written to Jewish believers tempted to go back into Judaism no doubt due to persecution by the Judiaizers as the letter indicates.

This climate runs all through the New Testament and can be seen especially in the life of Paul. One cannot read much of the New Testament and see the conflict between the Judiaizers and the Christians and how the Judiaizers were constant thorns in Paul's side.

Once we understand this framework of the New Testament we can better understand  the significance of those passages that speak of the destruction of Jerusalem and where it fits, if at all, in God's plan in the unfolding of redemptive history.

When our Lord gave his Olivet Discourse he mentioned the destruction of Herod's Temple and the signs that would precede it.  Few deny that at least part of the discourse is referring to 70AD when the temple was destroyed and Jerusalem was ransacked. But when one goes to the discourse in Luke 21 there is no denying the meaning of our Lord's words since the topic in question is solely the temple and its destruction. No other  question is asked nor is any other topic discussed at the outset. In is in this particular version of the discourse that our Lord says some very important words in verse 22 "for these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written will be fulfilled." That is a very important verse and its implications, we hope to prove, have some far reaching effects.

What is the connection between  the destruction of the temple and the question of who are the true children of promise that we have asked? Is there actually a connection between the manifestation of the sons of God and the destruction of the temple? When one sees the significance of  the dismantling of the Old Covenant system then its importance and its implication in relationship to the identification of the true people of God will come into sharp focus.

Paul tells us in Galatians 4  that the  two women Hager and  Sarah are the two covenants. What we see in this illustration is the Old Covenant system represented by Hager and her son Ishmael who was thought to be the child of promise till Isaac came along which was representative of the New Covenant. Once Isaac   (the real child of promise) came on the scene there was conflict and friction as to who was the true heir. We read in verse 29 of that chapter that the one born after the flesh (Ishmael - which was a picture of national Israel under the law) persecuted the one born after the Spirit (Isaac- which was a picture of the New Covenant believer living in the Spirit) EVEN SO IT IS NOW." This time period of the two living in the same house till the bondwoman and her son were cast out is a picture of the transitional period from the cross to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70A.D.  The cross was the time of the birth of Isaac, the coming in of the New Covenant and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem was the time of the casting out of the bondwoman. The transitional time from 30 - 70 A.D. was the time when  spiritual Ishmael persecuted spiritual Isaac before he  was cast out. The casting out of the bondwoman, 70A.D., was the manifestation of the sons of God. (Some have said that the bond woman was cast out at the cross but Paul's words which we emphasized "even so it is now" show that the bond woman had not been cast out at the time Paul wrote the letter.)

It was at the time of the casting out of this bond woman and her son, the Old Covenant that the true heir was made known, the church, and the fullness of the Gentiles came in. As long as the Old Covenant system with its sacrifices was intact then the New Covenant community had a real obstacle before  it as to so as to its manifestation as the true people of God.  The Levitical priesthood had to be cast out before Christ as a priest according to the order of Melchizidek could take his rightful place. Jesus was not from the tribe of Levi so according to the Levitical order he could not be a priest. Until the Levitical Priesthood was done away Christ in his priestly/king office could not be fully manifested. It was at that time, the dismantling of the Old Covenant and the Levitical Priesthood,  that Christ returned a second time without sin UNTO SALVATION (Heb 9:28) whereby he is now reigning. If he has not returned then he is not here to reign and is therefore an absent king. But He did return, cast out the bondwoman and her son,  brought in the days of vengeance whereby he redeemed his people, the elect of OT Israel, out of hades and all things written were fulfilled. He returned to a waiting congregation to bless the people, Lev 16: 16-17, and completed the redemption of the purchased possession. The Old Testament had to be fulfilled it could not merely be abolished at the cross. In order for "all Israel to be saved" the OT had to be fulfilled and it was in the days of vengeance which according to Isa 63:4 was the day of his redeemed.

It is this that Paul was referring to as being the manifestation of the sons of God. It was the time when the full manifestation of who the true people of God were.  In Romans 8 we read that the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. This word translated creature is the same word used many times to refer not to the physical creation but creatures themselves. In some cases such as 2cor 5 "a new creation" it is referring to the elect of God. In verse 21 of Romans 8 we are told that this creation itself shall also be delivered form the bondage of corruption INTO the glorious liberty of the children of God. Now can this be the physical creation?  This is the Old Testament saints who had died in faith not receiving the promise. They had to be delivered from the "bondage of corruption"  which was the Old Covenant law . Paul then says "and not only [they] but ourselves also." In addition to the Old Testament saints who have died and were waiting in  Abraham's bosom for the resurrection, but the New Testament believer at that time was waiting for the the adoption "the redemption of  OUR (plural) body (singular)" the redemption of the purchased possession. If Christ has not returned then redemption is not complete and we are not yet saved. For as we have stated  he will appear a second time without sin UNTO salvation. Paul told the Romans that salvation was nearer then when they believed. Peter said that salvation was ready to be revealed. So if he has not appeared a second time then salvation is not yet finished. If he has not appeared a second time then he has not yet entered into his kingdom as he said he would in the lifetime of some living then Matt 16:27-28.

There are some that insist that there must be a renovation of the universe as well as a redeeming of the physical body and if one does not believe that they have Gnostic leanings if not pure gnosticism. Quiet the opposite is true for this reason. The basic tenant of gnosticism is that it teaches matter is evil. Some believe the physical body must be resurrected having the molecules come together and the exact same body and be resurrected  else there is no salvation of the body and to say otherwise is gnosticism. But those that  say that the physical fleshly body is evil and needs to be redeemed are  falling into the very error they accuse us of. Sin does not reside in either the physical flesh and blood body nor the physical universe that some say must be renovated that fulfilled eschatology denies. This is to say matter is evil and needs redemption. But as we pointed out in Romans 8 it is not physical creation that is being spoken of.

If we will back up from Romans 8 into Romans 7 where Paul talks about the law and how sin taking occasion  by the commandment wrought in him "all manner of concupiscence" and then read how he desire to be delivered "from the body of this death" we see something interesting. Paul is not referring to the fleshly body that will return to the dust. In the next chapter he says there is no more condemnation to those that walk after the spirit and not the flesh. Is that flesh he is speaking about the physical body? Note the next verse "for the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin AND DEATH.". The law of sin and death is the law spoken of in Romans 7. Paul uses the term flesh a number of times to speak of the workings of the law to those under it. In Galatians 3:3"are ye so foolish having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Here is associates keeping the law of Moses with the work of the flesh as he does in Phil 3 where he  mentions how he had reason to "trust in the flesh" where he was talking about the keeping of the law as a "Hebrew of the Hebrews".

 

So we see that Paul's desire for deliverance from the body of sin was the deliverance from the Old Covenant law that worked in him "all manner of concupiscence". It is a failure to see this connection that has led many to reject fulfilled eschatology  based solely on the idea that both the physical body and the physical universe needs to be redeemed at the second coming. Another such reason is the curse that was put on the earth at the fall. These needs to be briefly examined to see that this has no merit to support and need for such a renovation.

In Genesis 8:21 after the flood we read:

      And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Two things we see here. One is that he will no longer curse the ground. But he already did in Genesis and if the curse was still in effect this would make no sense. Whatever the curse was, it was  reversed after the fall. Many will refer to Genesis 3:17-18 where we are told that "thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee and thou shall eat the herb of the field" as being the curse.  Since we still have thorns and thistles the curse is not reversed. But  notice where it says he will eat of the herb of the field. That is never looked at by many as part of the curse on the ground even though it is in the same sentence. When we revert back to Genesis 9 the verses following those previously read we notice this in the light of the "thou shalt eat the herb of the field":

2  And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

 3  Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

This change in man's relation to the earth appears to have some significance of the curse of the earth God promises to reverse in Genesis 8.

But note one other thing from our passage in Genesis 8 "neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done." Now this cannot be part of the curse he is promising not to bring upon the earth for the very language "neither will I" speaks of something in addition to what was just said.

Some say that this just means that God will not destroy the earth in the manner he did. Not by water but the next time by fire. If one of our children did the something wrong and promised to not do it again as they just did but did the same thing in another manner will we not consider that  as an act of dishonesty? We most certainly would but many attribute that very thing to God to avoid the clear implication of the passage that  there is no passage in the Bible to support the end of the cosmological universe. God may have a plan to end it but it is something he has yet to reveal to us.

One final verse on this aspect of our study will shed some light on this subject. In Isaiah 9:6-7 we read

6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

It is clear in this passage that his government will go on increasing without end. I ask how a government can increase without end if there is an end of the physical universe? Once the earth is ended and all of the elect are in the eternal state the increase of his government would cease.

 

But what about the resurrection? Paul says in 1Corinthinans 15 that at the resurrection mortality puts on immortality and death is swallowed up in victory. This seems to be another problem some have with fulfilled eschatology-the resurrection. Paul was quite clear that when the resurrection takes place death is swallowed up in victory. Paul actually says that at that time the saying that is written in Isaiah 25:8 will be brought to pass "death is swallowed up in victory. If we look at that passage in Isaiah 25 and its surrounding verses very few if any of the amil and postmil camp will deny that those verses are fulfulled in the gospel age.

Lets take a quick look at the passage in its context.

6 ¶ And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

Now verse 6  is a verse that amils believe is clearly the gospel age. But the next verse is most interesting for it fits in with Paul's language concerning the Old Covenant and the vail it leaves over the eyes of those outside the gospel:

7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

We need to ask ourselves if this has happened. If it did not then no one that is a gentile is yet in the covenant people of God. Now here is our verse:

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Are we to say that what has preceded is fulfilled at a different time?  If so what do we do with the verse that follows?

9 ¶ And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Unless one is willing to embrace the error of premillinial dispensationalism  they have to see that this whole passage is indeed fulfilled in the consumation of the Old Covenant whereby  all the people of God that have gone on to glory have put on immortality and are in the very presense of God.

If Paul and other Christians of a bygone generation have not put on their resurrection bodies then they are still naked are still living in time outside of eternity which is above time. Had they  left time and entered eternity then how could they not have their resurrection bodies since that is something achieved in time? So if they are then still in a time dimension then they are not in the immediate presence of Christ in the Holiest of Holies.

In addition what we have here is the dilemma of what our relationship to the law is. According to Paul the sting of death is sin and the strength of sin is the law. Well if death has not been swallowed up in victory then death's sting which is sin is still there and the sting's strength which is the law is still there. So either they go out together or not. If death has not been swallowed up then the strength of the sting of that death is still in operation.

Where does this leave us? It leaves us with a New Covenant which is a fulfilled hope not one of waiting for yet more unfulfilled prophecy. If the New Covenant believer has been waiting for yet another stage of Christ's work then what makes the New Covenant any better than the Old? It still is a waiting stage for something yet to happen.

No the New Covenant is a fulfilled hope where the believer is living in the light of the full and complete redemption of our blessed Redeemer.

What do YOU think ?

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Date:
10 Oct 2003
Time:
10:14:54

Comments

It's hard to explain the spiritual things of the NT to preterists since their Bibles apparently begin with the OT references to God's covenants with Israel and don't contain the earlier OT references to God's covenants with the world (Adam and Noah). BOTH sets of covenants had to be fulfilled in the first century, and that's why Christ's parousia did NOT occur in AD 70.


Date:
10 Oct 2003
Time:
15:56:52

Comments

The judgment of the world was connected to the judgment of Israel: "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken" (Luke 21:25, 26); "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth" (Luke 21:34, 35); "'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 3:10). As Luke 21 discusses the destruction of Jerusalem (Luke 21:5-7, 20-24), it is evident that the events of this passage, which were fulfilled in AD 70, had singificance to more than just the Jews. (The quote in Revelation, directed toward individuals, the church in Philadelphia, who were not in Judea, also shows the global significance of the event.) We are judged by the word of Christ (John 12:47, 48), which was preached in "all the world" prior to AD 70 (Matthew 24:14; Romans 10:13-18; Colossians 1:21-23) so that all could be judged by it! Moreover, while the judgment on Jerusalem was a physical event, it did indeed have spiritual consequences. Just as the shedding of Jesus' physical blood brought salvation (Matthew 26:27, 28; Romans 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; 2:13; Hebrews 8-10), the physical destruction of Jerusalem marked the end of the old world. In addition, Romans chapters 5-7 connect the issue of death and Adam with the issue of the Law of Moses. The events of the Jewish War and the destruction of Jerusalem, circa AD 70, relates to all these issues. Kenneth Perkins


Date:
11 Oct 2003
Time:
10:05:29

Comments

KP: With respect to the Bible, typology rules and the personal opinions of preterists eventually will have to yield to it. OT judgments were natural, NT judgments are spiritual. The natural judgment of natural Egypt that occurred when natural Israel emerged safely from the Red Sea was a type of the spiritual judgment of spiritual Egypt (natural Israel - see Rev. 11:8) that occurred when Christ, the true Israel (compare Mt. 2:15 with Ex. 4:22 and Hos. 11:1), emerged safely from the tomb. Thus, the judgment of natural, Christ-rejecting Israel occurred in the spring of AD 30 and it was a spiritual judgment. Correct typology also reveals that the judgment at Christ's parousia 1) also was spiritual, and 2) involved the entire, natural, Christ-rejecting world, and 3) occurred at the end of the true first century, not in AD 70. The rejection of complete and consistent typology by preterists, dispensationalists and historicists creates the unfortunate impression that they are more interested in defending their varied and erroneous opinions than they are in knowing the whole truth about the first century.


Date:
12 Oct 2003
Time:
17:10:23

Comments

To understand the first century, it will also be useful to read the comment entitled SOME PRICELESS INFORMATION added to KP's article on the Olivet Discourse that precedes the above article.


Date:
16 Jun 2004
Time:
03:36:09

Comments

which verse of the bible says that the enest espectation of the world egerly wait for the manifestion of the sons of God


Date: 08 Apr 2007
Time: 18:18:10

Comments:

Here are a few thoughts and scriptures regarding God's Full Salvation


Paul spoke of a mystery in 1Corinthians that may hold some insight into God’s “Full Salvation”.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep,
(2837) but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

That word sleep in the Greek is: G2837 (StrongÂ’s Concordance)
koy-mah'-o
>From G2749; to put to sleep, that is, (passively or reflexively) to
slumber; figuratively to decease: - (be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep,
be dead.

Jesus used this same word to describe Lazarus when he died. It is clear Paul is talking about a literal, physical death. He is essentially saying, “I am showing you a mystery; we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed…”

To gain further clarification of this mystery, letÂ’s go to the beginning of the chapter.

1Co 15:6 After that, he (Jesus) was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

Paul is talking about here of the witnesses to Jesus' resurrection. He says that the greater part remain (are alive) and some are asleep (dead). Those which remain and those which are asleep are also discussed in Thessalonians.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we
which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not
prevent them which are asleep.

So, it is clear that those who are asleep are dead at the Lords coming, but what of those who are alive and remain? Is the mystery that some people shall happen to be alive when Jesus returns? For example, if Jesus appears tomorrow, is it any mystery that there will be billions of people alive on the earth who are “remaining”? This seems more like common sense than a mystery. For of course people are going to be alive when Jesus returns. Perhaps, Paul is talking about people who are alive and continue to live (beyond a typical life span of the modern era) until Jesus returns. If this is not so, what other explanation is there of this “mystery”?


What was GodÂ’s original plan for man? Was he created to die?

In the Garden of Eden, we learn that God created man to live in His presence
eternally. How do we know this? In Genesis 2 we read:

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree
of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou
shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou
shalt surely die.

Every tree man was permitted to eat except one. When Adam had sinned and partook of that tree, God said this:

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of
us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and
take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for everÂ…

It is written very clearly here that if Adam were to eat of the tree of life he would live forever. What implication does that have? Well, if Adam was permitted to partake of that tree before his sin (he
was only forbidden the tree of knowledge), then it is clear to see he was already living in a state of no physical death.


God told Adam he would now die for his sin, but did he die immediately? No.

Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and
thirty years: and he died.

Adam clearly lived much longer than is typical today. So, Adam did not die immediately, but sin did enter the world and death was working in Adam's entire being (body, soul, and spirit) so that he eventually died a physical death.

When man's wickedness grew greater in the earth, God said this of man's days:

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with
man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and
twenty years.

Now was this God's original intention for man to only live to be 120 years? We know it wasn't because Adam would have lived forever in the garden, and even still, he lived 930 years. It appears that God's original plan was for man to live forever (eternally) with Him body, soul, and
spirit.

Isn’t it interesting that when someone is battling cancer or a life-threatening disease at age 30, we tell them to fight it? We pray for their healing, we encourage them to hold on, and we are heartbroken if the die. We say, “They were so young.” But when someone is 90 and battling some life-threatening disease or dying of “old age” (which is just another way of saying the body is breaking down and not functioning properly). Do we pray for them? Sure we do. Do we tell them to hold on? Perhaps. But what if they died? Don’t we say, “They lived a good long life, it was just their time to go.”?

Why do we do this? We do this because we are not looking at Gods word as our standard, but the world. We see that people in our era live on average to a certain age, and then they die. If we were born a few thousand years ago, perhaps we would feel that a 50 year-old had lived a full life and was now ready to die. But donÂ’t we see that this is all relevant? In NoahÂ’s day, God cursed man that we should only live to a 120, but we are settling for 70, or 80, or the occasional 100-something.

If a 105 year old woman came up us and asked for a prayer of healing, would we have the faith to believe with her? Or, would we simply think in our heart, “I’ll pray for you- but its pretty much your time to go.”?


Full Salvation

We often talk about GodÂ’s FULL SALVATION, but we minimize the body
aspect of it so much. Where in the scriptures are we to believe that
the body is not as important as the rest of us in GodÂ’s salvation?

Paul writes this about our WHOLE self:

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I
pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless
unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (added emphasis)

That word wholly is: G3651
hol-ot-el-ace'
>From G3650 and G5056; complete to the end, that is, absolutely
perfect: - wholly.

So, when we speak of the FULL SALVATION or the RESTORATION OF ALL
THINGS, why do we down play the body? Many Christians believe that God just wants us to die and make it to heaven. This would be the salvation of the spirit. Other Christians take it a step further and believe that God wants us to go to heaven, but also enjoy some benefits of heaven down here. They say that we can have peace, joy, miracles, healings, good lives, etc. This is primarily dealing with the salvation of the soul and only partly with the body.

Thank goodness that many Christians are realizing that we don’t have to do die and go to heaven to experience what God has for us. Many of us can see how previous believers have put God in a box by believing Christianity was only “fire-insurance”, but could we be making a similar mistake? The furthest we seem to take the salvation of the body is in healings or perhaps the occasional person being raised from the dead. But, as stated before, the extent of our faith towards healing is greatly shaped by the limitations of the world we see around us.


Adam or Jesus?

This is where we are longing for something more. Consider this: Who is greater Adam or Jesus? We would agree Jesus is right? But do we believe it really?

Here is both what Adam did and what Jesus did:

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much
more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of
righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (emphasis
added)

The bible says that through one man sin entered and we all died. But then right after this it says MUCH MORE we shall reign in life for what Christ did for us. We'll if Adam's sin kills us completely, why do only believe Jesus' atonement redeems us in part? That doesn't
sound like MUCH MORE to me.

Adam would have lived for ever, but he sinned. Of course God knew about this and the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. Why was He slain? Because He was our Passover Lamb:

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new
lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is
sacrificed for us:

Christ is our Passover lamb so that what could pass over? Death. So the question again: who is greater Adam or Jesus? Is Adam's sin a 3/3 (spirit, soul, and body) condemnation and Jesus' redemption only 2/3 (spirit and soul)?

Now I know your probably thinking, “Wait a second I do believe in the 3/3 atonement of Jesus Christ!” I am sure you do, but perhaps it is akin to Martha’s faith.

Martha's brother Lazarus had died and Jesus came to make him alive:

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in
the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:
(emphasis added)

It is very interesting here. I think if you asked most people about the resurrection they would respond in a similar way as Martha. Jesus asked her if she believed he would rise again and she said essentially, "Yes Lord I believe he will some time way out in the future." Jesus responds, "No, not in the future- NOW".

Jesus continues:

Joh 11:25 ...he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
Believest thou this?

He makes clarifications of 2 different types of believers here:
1. He that believes and is dead.
2. He that lives and believes.
For the 1st, Jesus says they shall live. I believe these are the "dead in Christ" that the bible talks much about. The 2nd, Jesus says, shall never die. I believe these may be the people that Paul
talks about "remaining" until he comes and not sleeping (as Lazarus slept).

So we may believe in a 3/3 redemptive work of Christ, but we most likely do not believe we can apprehend it now. We believe, as Martha did, that it is for some event way out in the future only.
Let me make it clear here that certainly a resurrection of the dead is a biblical concept sometime in the future. Martha was not incorrect in believing this. The question is, however, can this resurrection (the life of Jesus Christ) be manifested in our mortal bodies NOW before that time?

Some who believe that we can not obtain such a thing fail to understand that others have in the past (they did not consider Enoch, Elijah, or Jesus).

Well, I don't believe I can through my own strength obtain salvation (of any kind), but that is not the issue. The issue is this: has Jesus already apprehended it and we just have to (through His
strength, spirit, and provision) apprehend it too?


What Are We Waiting For?

Jesus said He is done with His part.

Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the
work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus finished His work. The bible says he was the first born of many brethren. Here in Romans 8 we learn how the earth is waiting for the manifestation of these brethren:

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for
the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not
willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from
the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children
of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and
travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the
firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
(emphasis added)


We know that the son's of God will be revealed in the Earth and that Jesus has finished his work. So what is there left to do? I believe we have to apprehend it.

Philippians 3:12 is often quoted, but there is something pretty interesting that Paul says right before this:

Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,
and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto
his death;
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of
the dead.

What is Paul trying to attain? The resurrection of the dead! But Paul is not dead here. Is he trying to apprehend the resurrection so that when he dies he'll be resurrected? Maybe- but maybe he's trying to apprehend it NOW.

If we start at Phi 3:10, it gives a whole new meaning to 3:12 when
we read it now:

Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already
perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which
also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Paul wanted to apprehend (seize, posses, take a hold) of what Jesus already did- the resurrection. Some people make everything out to be in GodÂ’s hands and dismiss or minimize our role in this thing. The bible tells us we have a huge part to play on apprehending the promises of God. Hebrews warns us not to be like the children of Israel who did not enter in because of unbelief (Heb3:19). Romans tells us that by continually doing good we seek for glory, honor and immortality (Rom 2:7).

The bible says about a million and half times (depending on the translation) that if we sin we will die but if we live righteously and obediently we shall live. So, it is clearly in God's hands the times and hours of events, but if we do not recognize the "our part"/apprehending of this thing, will God just wait until another generation rises up with faith enough to enter His promised land?


Wrappin it up...

When we read Corinthians we discover we are new creatures in Christ.
Behold ALL things have become new. In the gospel of John we learn that we are given the same glory as Jesus Christ and in Romans we learn we will share in Christ's resurrection if we share in His death:

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;
that they may be one, even as we are one:

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his
death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

It's kind of funny how much God says we will share with Him and how scared we are to really speak of these things much of the time. Remember the religious establishment of Jesus' time? When did they hate Him the most? It was when he claimed to be the son of God. A lot of times when we speak about becoming conformed to His image or becoming His joint-heir and son, people want to put limits on that, limits that I have not yet seen in the scriptures.

Roman's says that Jesus dieth no more (6:9) and that we share in His resurrection if we share in His death. Of course, Jesus is risen and never dies for he has a NEW body and is glorified. But are we to be so bold as to desire this same thing? It appears to be promised to us, but up to this point a people have not obtained it, insisting it is simply a spiritual admonition and not a natural one. If we claim this same promise HERE AND NOW, will the religious establishment hate us like they hated Jesus?

Remember how Joshua and Caleb could not enter into the Promised Land because of the
unbelief of the people? The people died in the wilderness because of unbelief and God rose up a new generation to inherit the land. Then Joshua and Caleb went in with that new generation because of their belief. God isn't looking for just a few sons here and there; He is looking for a people. So, if this salvation and redemption of our bodies is something we can apprehend NOW, it is probably God's will that a PEOPLE enter in, not just a few.

We know that any time a new thing of God happens the biggest resister of that thing is often the religious establishment. We may be on the verge of something that is truly new. With all these things in mind I hope that we are careful lest we miss out on His promises.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious
promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

A few things should be clarified here. Many people have probably misappropriated this belief in the past. Why? Most likely because they get out of balance and forget God's character and Word. We must not forget all that God has spoken to us before just to apprehend this new thing. For instance, just because we have all knowledge or understand all mysteries and we have not love we are nothing. That seems to be a big component that people have missed out in this "Full Salvation" message. You know how some Pentecostals have often put so much emphasis on
the Spirit that they actually lose sight of the Lord Himself? Crazy huh? Well, the same thing applies here. After all, God is looking for a people with HIS CHARACTER. And what is His character? Love.

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