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AD70 Dispensationalism: According to that view, AD70 was the end of 'this age' and the start of the 'age to come'.    Those who lived before AD70 could only 'see in part' and such, lacking the resurrection and redemptive blessings which supposedly came only when Herod's Temple in Jerusalem fell.    Accordingly, AD70 was not only the end of Old Testament Judaism, but it was also the end of the revelation of Christianity as seen in the New Testament.

HYPER PRETERISM

"Full preterist" material is being archived for balanced representation of all preterist views, but is classified under the theological term hyper (as in beyond the acceptable range of tolerable doctrines) at this website.  The classification of all full preterism as Hyper Preterism (HyP) is built upon well over a decade of intense research at PreteristArchive.com, and the convictions of the website curator (a former full preterist pastor).  The HyP theology of final resurrection and consummation in the fall of Jerusalem, with its dispensational line in AD70 (end of old age, start of new age), has never been known among authors through nearly 20 centuries of Christianity leading up to 1845, when the earliest known full preterist book was written.  Even though there may be many secondary points of agreement between Historical/Modern Preterism and Hyper Preterism, their premises are undeniably and fundamentally different.

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED AS "HYPER PRETERIST"


Systematic Hyper Preterism
(aka "Full Preterism")



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Jesus: "It is finished" (AD30)
cf. Hebrews 10:19-22

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Hyper Preterism: Defining "Hyper Preterism"- Criticisms from the Inside - Criticisms from the Outside || Progressive Pret | Regressive Pret | Former Full Preterists | Pret Scholars | Normative Pret | Reformed Pret | Pret Idealism | Pret Universalism

William Bell
Max King
Don Preston
Larry Siegle
Kurt Simmons
Ed Stevens
 

SOME DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES OF SYSTEMATIZED HYPER PRETERISM

It is important to keep in mind that many ideas and doctrines full preterism appeals to - such as the complete end of the Old Covenant world in AD70 - are by no means distinctive to that view.   Many non HyPs believe this as well, so one need not embrace the Hyper Preterist system in order to endorse this view.   Following are exceptional doctrines which, so far as I've seen, are only taught by adherents of Hyper Preterism.:

DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY STANDARD FULL PRETERISM

  • All Bible Prophecy was Fulfilled By AD70

  • Atonement Incomplete at Cross ; Complete at AD70

  • The Supernatural Power of Evil Ended in AD70

  • The Spirit of Antichrist was Destroyed in AD70

  • "The Consummation of the Ages" Came in AD70

  • "The Millennium" is in the Past, From AD30 to AD70

  • Nothing to be Resurrected From in Post AD70 World ; Hades Destroyed

  • The Christian Age Began in AD70 ; Earth Will Never End

  • "The Day of the Lord" was Israel's Destruction ending in AD70

  • The "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ Took Place in AD70-ish

  • The Great Judgment took place in AD70 ; No Future Judgment

  • The Law, Death, Sin, Devil, Hades, etc. Utterly Defeated in AD70

  • "The Resurrection" of the Dead and Living is Past, Having Taken Place in AD70

  • The Context of the Entire Bible is Pre-AD70 ; Not Written To Post AD70 World

DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY VARIOUS FORMS
(under construction)

  • Baptism was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Lord's Prayer was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Lord's Supper was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Holy Spirit's Paraclete Work Ceased in AD70 (Cessationism)

  • The Consummation in AD70 Caused Church Offices to Cease (Cessationism)

  • The Resurrection in AD70 Changed the "Constitutional Principle" of Marriage (Noyesism)

  • Israel and Humanity Delivered into Ultimate Liberty in AD70 (TransmillennialismTM)

  • The Judgment in AD70 Reconciled All of Mankind to God ; All Saved (Preterist Universalism)

  • Adam's Sin No Longer Imputed in Post AD70 World ; No Need to be Born Again (Preterist Universalism)

  • When Jesus Delivered the Kingdom to the Father in AD70, He Ceased Being The Intermediary (Pantelism/Comprehensive Grace?)

  • The Book of Genesis is an Apocalypse; is About Creation of First Covenant Man, not First Historical Man (Covenantal Preterism)

 

101 Preterist Time-Indicators

By David Green
2002

[TD: Many of these "time-indicators" have been refudiated from claiming total fulfillment in AD70.  Note that many of them simply suggest that judgment was coming.. but just because something is true of the first generation doesn't mean that it isn't true for each successive generation as well - as sin and judgment still abound.  When time allows, each of these verses will be disqualified from teaching the Full Preterist premise that the Consummation of the ages and only Second Coming of Christ, Great Judgment, and General Resurrection would take place in AD70.    Note that not one of these verses actually declares that fulfillment of any kind took place in AD70.]
 

 1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

8. "....the age about to come." (Matt. 12:32)

9. "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds." (Matt. 16:27)

10. "There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)

12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

13. "From now on, you [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:69)

14. "The kingdom of God is at hand." (Mk. 1:15)

15. "What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others. ....They [the chief priests, scribes and elders] understood that He spoke the parable against them." (Mk. 12:9,12)

16. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30)

17. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Lk. 3:7)

18. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees. " (Lk. 3:9)

19. "His winnowing fork is in His hand…." (Lk. 3:17)

20. “The kingdom of God has come near to you.” (Lk. 10:9)

21. “The kingdom of God has come near.” (Lk. 10:11)

22. “What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others." …The scribes and the chief priests …understood that He spoke this parable against them.” (Lk. 20:15-16,19)

23. “These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Lk. 21:22)

24. "This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32)

25. "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.'” (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

26. "We were hoping that He was the One who is about to redeem Israel.” (Lk. 24:21)

27. "I will come to you. …In that Day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.' …'Lord, what then has happened that You are about to disclose Yourself to us, and not to the world?'" (Jn. 14:18,20,22)

28. "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" (Jn. 21:22)

29. “This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'And it shall be in the last days…'” (Acts 2:16-17)

30. “He has fixed a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness…” (Acts 17:31)

31. “There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)

32. “As he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment about to come…" (Acts 24:25)

33. “Not for [Abraham's] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for our sake also, to whom it is about to be reckoned.” (Rom. 4:23-24)

34. “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)

35. “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)

36. "It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand." (Rom. 13:11-12)

37. “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

38. “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

39. “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)

40. “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)

41. “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)

42. "Maranatha!" [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)

43. "...not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)

44. “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)

45. "The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)

46. “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)

47. “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)

48. “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)

49. “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7)  [published by PreteristArchive.com]

50. “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8)

51. “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)

52. “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)

53. “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)

54. “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)

55. “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)

56. “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)

57. “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)

58. “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)

59. "For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it's end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8)

60. “When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)

61. “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)

62. “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)

63. “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)

64. “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)

65. “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)

66. “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)

67. “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)

68. “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

69. "Speak and so act, as those who are about to be judged by the law of liberty." (Jms. 2:12)

70. “Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. …It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!” (Jms. 5:1,3)

71. “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.” (Jms. 5:7)

72. “You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)

73. “…salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:6)

74. “He …has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” (I Peter 1:20)

75. “They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (I Peter 4:5)

76. “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.” (I Peter 4:7)

77. "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.” (I Peter 4:17)

78. “…as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed.” (I Peter 5:1)

79. “We have the prophetic word …which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.” (II Peter 1:19)

80. “Their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (II Peter 2:3)

81. “In the last days mockers will come. …For this they willingly are ignorant of…” (I Peter 3:3,5)

82. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God.” (II Peter 3:10-12)

83. “The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.” (I Jn. 2:8)

84. “The world is passing away, and its desires.” (I Jn. 2:17)

85. “It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

86. “Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18; Compare Matt. 24:23-34)

87. “This is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” (I Jn. 4:3; Compare II Thess. 2:7)

88. “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation. …About these also Enoch …prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly…'” (Jude 1:4,14-15)

89. “But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, 'In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.' These are the ones who cause divisions…” (Jude 1:17-19)

90. “…to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 1:1)

91. “The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

92. “Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.” (Rev. 2:25)

93. “I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

94. “I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

95. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

96. "And in her [the Great City Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24; Compare Matt. 23:35-36; Lk. 11:50-51)

97. “…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

98. "Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

99. "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26)

100. "Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

101. "Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)


Following this brief article are 101 biblical, preterist "time-indicators." (Hence the title.) There are many more than 101 to be found in Scripture, but these are probably the most blunt and obvious of them all. If we were to include every preterist time-indicator in Scripture, the number would possibly be in the hundreds. My purpose in displaying these passages (with some cross references) is to lay out in a concise, easy-to-read format the overwhelming testimony that our Lord actually fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, as He said He would. (Matt. 5:17)

Now it seems to me that there are only two ways to "get around" these 101 Scriptures and remain a Futurist. One of those ways is to dismiss the spirit of imminence that saturates the New Testament and to say that it only indicates things that are "soon in God's sight."

There are some major problems with that approach. If the imminence saturating the New Testament was only an "in-God's-sight" imminence, then why was the Old Testament not also saturated with an "in-God's-sight" imminence? Why did God not tell Adam and Eve, "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand?" Why did He not tell Abraham, "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds?" Why did He not say to Malachi, "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place?"

Why is it that a Second Coming in the 21st century was "imminent" in the 1st century, but was not imminent before the 1st century? There is no substantive defense against this objection. The fact is that what God said was near to the Apostles, He said was not near to the earlier prophets. Perhaps the clearest illustration of this truth is found in a comparison of Dan. 8:26 and Rev. 22:10:

6th century BC: "Seal up the vision; for it shall be for many days." (Dan. 8:26)

1st century AD: "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10)

What God said was far away in Daniel's time, He said was imminent in the Apostles' time. The implication is inescapable: The imminence in the New Testament was real.

Granted, it is not unreasonable to use an expression of imminence or brevity in reference to a relatively long period of time, (II Cor. 4:17) but it is biblically unreasonable to interpret every statement of eschatological imminence throughout the New Testament as meaning "2,000 years later." If we are going to claim scriptural support for such a hermeneutical approach, the only option is to make II Peter 3:8 ("With the Lord a day is like a thousand years") a "Code Key" that unlocks the "secret" meaning of the Spirit. But not only is that method Gnostic-like, it makes eschatology (and ultimately, soteriology) utterly impossible to understand correctly without the mystical elucidation of II Peter 3:8 (and Ps. 90:4).

The second technique that is employed to "get around" the New Testament declarations of imminence is to dichotomize the spirit of imminence (and therefore the unified eschatological theme of Scripture), and to say that some or most New Testament imminence Scriptures do indeed indicate nearness in time (such as in references to the Great Tribulation in A.D. 66-70 and to a "coming" in judgment in A.D. 70.) but that other imminence Scriptures are in reality not statements of imminence at all (In this approach, all references to the Second Coming, the Resurrection of the Dead and the "Final Judgment" are said to contain no indications of imminence whatsoever.).

The problem with this method is simply this: Denial. The Bible says it. They deny it. They have thereby been forced to construct a duplicitous, theological system of "Yes" and "No." They have created a kind of twilight land of both "shadow" and "substance" (the land of partial preterism and Historicism). They are rather like Saul of Tarsus, a man who sincerely and ignorantly "kicked against the goads" of the plain declarations of Scripture.

Many who have found themselves in this predicament recognize that they are in abject exegetical poverty, and so they end up appealing strictly and only to the authority of "the historic Church and her creeds." Not unrelated to this sad phenomenon is the defection of many protestants to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Denial is a complicated and destructive thing indeed. Like deception, it becomes a tangled web. The incredible eschatological confusion that has plagued the Christian world since the days of the Reformation is a testimony to that fact.

But in contrast to the chaos of Futurism, the Scriptures (below) have a straightforward teaching, which is this: The fulfillment of all prophecy was "at hand," "near," "soon," "about to be," etc. when the New Testament was written, and it was all to be fulfilled by the time the Old Covenant vanished and its temple was destroyed (in A.D. 70).

The prophetic message is so simple, yet it is so profound. In a way, it is not surprising that we missed it for so long.

Now a final note. The Apostle Peter was referring to eschatology when he said the following:

"...in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." (II Peter 3:16)

Be careful what you do with the truth. Being in possession of a true, biblical proposition is by no means an evidence of being wise, no matter how wonderful the proposition is. There is no denying that some Preterists are "untaught and unstable," and have used Preterism to "distort" the Scriptures (They are Universalists, Arians, Neo-Gnostics, etc.). They despise the collected teachings of the historic Church as being little more than the tricks of jugglers, and have blasphemed virtually every pillar of the Faith. They imagine themselves to be pioneers, but they are revilers in the tradition of II Peter and Jude. Do not follow them. Avoid them at all cost. Please see my  Q&A #33     email David A. Green

What do YOU think ?

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Date:
25 Aug 2002
Time:
19:24:52

Comments

Preterists and futurists don't seem to understand spiritual regeneration, and so preterists erroneously claim that the passing away of heaven and earth at Christ's first-century parousia (Rev. 21:1) is a reference to the destruction of natural Israel in AD 70. But 2 Peter 3:5-7 makes it clear that the heaven and earth that "passed away" in the first century was the Christ-rejecting, post-flood, natural world. Ask your local preterist to learn about spiritual regeneration from 2 Cor. 5:17 so that he/she can discover how the natural world could have "passed away" in the first century and yet have its existence continue for a while.


Date:
26 Aug 2002
Time:
14:33:04
Remote User:

Comments

It is a common dodge, and a desperate one at that, to attempt to spiritualize away the clear meaning that Peter is talking about. The person who wrote that comment misses one of many crucial points--the main one being that the word "elements" that Peter mentions ALWAYS means the elements of religion,society, etc., in their day. It's clear, beyond a doubt, that Peter is talking about the passing away of the Old covenant-if you do your homework!


Date:
28 Aug 2002
Time:
17:17:50
Remote User:

Comments

2 Peter 3:4,5 refers to the original creation (Gen. 1:1), which occurred long before the creation of Israel. 3:6 says that the ancient world, not Israel,"being overflowed with water perished," and 3:7 says that the first-century world, not Israel, was "reserved unto fire against the day of judgment" -- fire referring to the first-century spiritual judgment of the world because God promised Noah that he wouldn't judge the world again by water (Gen. 9:11). 3:10 refers to the first-century change in the world's culture, from pagan to Christian, that resulted from the church's worldwide preaching of the gospel. There is no reference to Old Covenant Israel in 2 Peter 3:3-10. Also, the accusation of spiritualizing the interpretation of the New Testament is usually resorted to by desperate dispensationalists rather than by desperate preterists.


Date:
03 Sep 2002
Time:
05:07:56
Remote User:

Comments

Once again it appears we have a writer that takes a single scriptural passage in an attempt to debunk the preterist theology. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 100 listed by Mr. Green? Preterism is established by the whole of scripture and many building blocks - not a single passage! II Peter 3 does not negate the imminence of the entire New Testament, and even if it did, the parousia is tied to EVENTS such as men's life spans (Matthew 16:27; John 21:22), going through the cities of Israel (Matthew 10:23), the destruction of Jerusalem (several passages including Daniel 12:7). Maybe we can use the rubber band (stretching) theorey on imminence words but how is this done with the lifespan of men and the destruction of Jerusalem? If the writer above can explain this, I will be the first to listen.


Date:
03 Sep 2002
Time:
05:08:02
Remote User:

Comments

Once again it appears we have a writer that takes a single scriptural passage in an attempt to debunk the preterist theology. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 100 listed by Mr. Green? Preterism is established by the whole of scripture and many building blocks - not a single passage! II Peter 3 does not negate the imminence of the entire New Testament, and even if it did, the parousia is tied to EVENTS such as men's life spans (Matthew 16:27; John 21:22), going through the cities of Israel (Matthew 10:23), the destruction of Jerusalem (several passages including Daniel 12:7). Maybe we can use the rubber band (stretching) theorey on imminence words but how is this done with the lifespan of men and the destruction of Jerusalem? If the writer above can explain this, I will be the first to listen.


Date:
03 Sep 2002
Time:
09:25:05
Remote User:

Comments

Then the first thing you should be willing to listen to is the fact that Christ's first-century parousia did not occur in AD 70 but rather "in those days (Greek "hemera") AFTER that tribulation" (Mk. 13:24) -- hemera being used figuratively to mean years, as in Mt. 2:1 (did Herod reign for only a few days?) and Lk. 1:7,18 (were Elisabeth and Zacharias old after just a few days?) and Mt. 24:37, 1 Peter 3:20 (did Noah live for just a few days?) and Mt. 24:38 (were there just a few days before the flood?) and Acts 7:45 (did David live just a few days?) and Heb. 5:7 (was the time of Jesus' flesh just a few days?). However, your agreement that 2 Peter 3 refers to the first-century natural world, not to first-century natural Israel, is greatly appreciated.


Date:
04 Sep 2002
Time:
10:18:00
Remote User:

Comments

The first six items on the list (and many more) apply to Christ's first presence on the earth. John said the kingdom (spiritual reign) of heaven was at hand at Christ's baptism (his anointing as King) in autumn of AD 26, and the references to fire in Mt. 3 refer to the spiritual judgment of natural Israel that occurred at the moment of Christ's resurrection in the spring of AD 30. God's failed, natural missionary nation had to be spiritually judged to prepare the way for God's successful, spiritual missionary nation (spiritual Israel, the church) so that, after the worldwide preaching of the gospel in the first century (Mt. 24:14), the natural world could be spiritually judged. The fire in 2 Thes. 1:7,8 and 2 Peter 3 refers to the spiritual judgment of the natural world in the moment of the resurrection of the dead in Christ at his parousia at the end of the first century.


Date:
04 Sep 2002
Time:
10:22:13
Remote User:

Comments

The first six items on the list (and many more) apply to Christ's first presence on the earth. John said the kingdom (spiritual reign) of heaven was at hand at Christ's baptism (his anointing as King) in autumn of AD 26, and the references to fire in Mt. 3 refer to the spiritual judgment of natural Israel that occurred at the moment of Christ's resurrection in the spring of AD 30. God's failed, natural missionary nation had to be spiritually judged to prepare the way for God's successful, spiritual missionary nation (spiritual Israel, the church) so that, after the worldwide preaching of the gospel in the first century (Mt. 24:14), the natural world could be spiritually judged. The fire in 2 Thes. 1:7,8 and 2 Peter 3 refers to the spiritual judgment of the natural world in the moment of the resurrection of the dead in Christ at his parousia at the end of the first century.


Date:
05 Sep 2002
Time:
16:51:26
Remote User:

Comments

So now we presumably have explanation of the first six items (?) What about the folowing 95 items? Is there more than one parousia, resurrection? What about none of the law being fulfilled until heaven and earth pass away and ALL being fulfilled? Has that occurred? Or do we await a second, third, fourth parousia judgment? Daniel 12 speaks of the tribulation and the resurrection ocurring when the power of the Holy People is shattered (scattered). What Holy people are these? The same Holy people that Daniel would have understood? Wasn't this the "end of days"? Is there a second, third, or fourth end of days??? Come on folks, how many hairs do we need to split. Use some context, careful lexicon, common sense, and first century ears. It's accomplished or we are yet dead in our sins, the Messianic age has not begun, and Jesus has not found faith on the earth.


Date:
05 Sep 2002
Time:
19:30:29
Remote User:

Comments

God made SEPARATE promises to the world (Adam and Noah) and to Israel that resulted in SEPARATE first-century spiritual fulfillments. Because preterists don't recognize that basic fact, they erroneously combine the world promises and the Israel promises and try to cram a joint fulfillment into AD 70.


Date:
13 Sep 2002
Time:
05:08:51
Remote User:

Comments

World promises? Israel promises? Huh? Didn't God make promises regarding the seed and the serpent way back in Genesis 3? Wasn't this a reference to Christ? Different promises? Didn't Christ reconcile ALL things to Himself? What about breaking down the wall of enmity and individuals drinking of ONE Spirit! Didn't Christ pray they would become ONE as He and the Father are ONE. Weren't ALL the law, the prophets and the saints pointing toward ONE promise - the Messiah? Different promises? What different promises? Promises to the world - and promises to Israel ??? Huh?


Date:
24 Jan 2003
Time:
03:04:01

Comments


Date:
27 Aug 2003
Time:
12:18:49

Comments

Dear Bro. Green: My problem has usually been that sincere persons can not conceive putting the Scriptures in a pre-70 A.D. context. I am sixty eight years old, spent my pre-retirement years in an Independent Baptist pastorate, tried to be as clear as I knew how in handling the Truth, but men do not like to have their "formula" changed. In and By His Grace, In His Everlasting Kingdom, Robert G. Williams usmc1div@earthlink.net


Date:
20 Nov 2003
Time:
18:49:12

Comments


Date:
20 Nov 2003
Time:
18:52:30

Comments

Hi David. I have found that the futurists do not have any thing to argue about Time Statements. The problem they have is that their minds have been filled with preconceived ideas from their teachers. Juan C. Peña Marrero


Date:
13 Dec 2003
Time:
15:55:02

Comments

So a Man died on the cross, shed his blood, and now the laws are in our minds and our hearts? Noone shall teach the other for everyone shall know the Lord from the least to the greatest! Hum, when does the everyone take place? All this debating over second comings, which laws apply, really sounds like fulfillment to me. Boy oh boy, what a difference it has all made, some guy died foe us all and now everything is just hunky dory!


Date:
18 Apr 2004
Time:
13:23:24

Comments

As I have said over and over in preterist forums, the doctrine has flaws because its hermeneutics are not sound. Jehovah's Witnesses can probably come up with "101 Jesus is not God Passages" but the fact that Jesus claimed to be God in just ONE passage (John 8:58), and is clearly called God in several others (John 1:1;20:28; 2 Peter 1:1 in Greek), disproves and topples the whole theological system. The amount of something only amounts to committing the logical fallacy of consensus gentium. lol I'm not saying that preterists are exactly like this cult group. I am saying that posting a bunch of Scriptures, MOST of which have absolutely nothing to do with supporting preterism, does not prove anything. Flawed methodology is flawed methodology. The more I learn about what preterists (especially full) teach, the more I see that Scripture is being forced to say what it does not. John 21:22 does NOT mean John would live to the second coming. The word "IF" in the text makes it clear that Jesus was not making a statement. But that is overlooked. And as far as these so-called "timed indicators" are concerned, the fact remains that it cannot be logically or biblically denied that God's thoughts are different from ours, and that God's ways are also different. Not always, of course, but they are. Isaiah prophesied in 13:6 and said: "Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand..." But when was this "at hand" fulfilled against Babylon? From what I am able to ascertain it was over 100 years later in 539 BC (assuming Isaiah prophesied between 740-680 BC). But can someone please tell me how THAT was "at hand" in a strict, literal sense? And of course there are other examples of how God prophesied about something in one time, and yet all those who heard the prophecy died and it was fulfilled in another time. So there is Biblical precedent for the fact that all "time indicators" that seem to be imminent are not necessarily so. I am working on producing a website right now, and as I learn more about preterism I will produce articles showing the fallacies of interpretation I see. But what I can say so far, as a student of the Bible for over 18 years who knows New Testament Greek (and teaches it) and has learned some Hebrew, is that preterism will not stand if it can be shown to misread or otherwise distort Scripture. And so far, that is what I see. Peace in Him, AD


Date:
27 Apr 2004
Time:
11:07:35

Comments

David Green lists 101 references regarding imminency statements and backs it up with scripture (impressive), but you say Jehovah's Witnesses can "probably" come up with 101 Jesus is not God statements and I don't see you backing that up with any scripture (NOT IMPRESSED!).


Date:
08 May 2004
Time:
00:46:36

Comments

It is not "impressive" to quote a multitude of texts taken out of context. And I never intended to prove what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Their hermeneutic is just as flawed as Mr. Green's "101" so-called preterist verses. I've made my point and have never seen anyone refute what I've said. AD


Date:
14 May 2004
Time:
06:33:57

Comments

I honestly would like to know how you "refute" the time statements that are throughout the New Testamant. I will list just three: 1)Matt 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Jesus Himself made this comment! The transfiguration would not make sense of His statement. 2) Acts 2:16-17 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Peter himself is saying that what was happening to THEM was spoken of by Joel what would happen "in the last days". 3) 1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. So Jesus said some wouldn't die before He returned, and Peter and John taught the people that THEY were living in the last days. How do you explain this?


Date:
13 Aug 2004
Time:
12:43:43

Comments

I would think your "at hand," "near," "soon," "about to be," exegetical grid would force you to conclude that the verses below "prove" that the day of the Lord occured during the old testament times. rod rogers Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Ezekiel 30:3 For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen. Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come. Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Obadiah 15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. Zephaniah 1:7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:


Date:
18 Aug 2004
Time:
23:04:39

Comments

What version of the Bible did this author use for Acts 24:15? In the article it says, "There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked(Acts 24:15)" The versions that I have read say "there will be a resurrection of the dead." Where did he get "about to be"?


Date: 31 May 2006
Time: 16:05:40

Comments:

I'm a full preterest & therefore I think the time statements are extremely telling in terms of what was about to take place. However, as I went through each passage a number of times I found "about" or something similar inserted into the text that I could not find in any translation.

I make no judgment as to the heart or mindset of the author but I believe that there are plenty of imminency statements present in Scripture without having to manufacture additional ones.

Listen, I'm no Greek scholar & therefore I will stand corrected if there is specific reason to add those few words of imminency.

After we have come to embrace preterism we can see how "about to be" type statement fit the text but I think it not appropriate to add those words to Scripture when it is nowhere to be found in the text - not even in loose translations.

There is some good stuff there but I'm hoping that the author chooses to revise this article.

I have read other work by this author such as "New Covenant Salvation" and I was most impressed with the content.

Respectfully,
Chuck Coty <><


Date: 23 Feb 2013
Time: 01:15:25

Your Comments:

fulfillment in AD70 is not the relevant matter. The only importance of all those time statement is that in each one there is a door opened to understand the manifestation of the power of God in a new spiritual scenario and in a new realm. When our Lord said "The kingdom of God is at hand." (Mk. 1:15, He did not try to say that maybe the Kingdom will come. He was saying that indeed the kingdom was a reality that will be noted by the people in its proper nature. We are not living in the old covenant. We are living under the constitution of the kingdom of God in the new covenant that is eternal. This is not a matter of the four views: Preterism, futurist, historicism or idealist. This is a matter of the prophetic horizon formatted by Jesus and established by God the Father. Pastor Juan C. Peña Marrero Bayamón, Puerto Rico 2/23/2013


Date: 17 Aug 2013
Time: 18:29:43

Your Comments:

It is unfortunate that you have left the truth for partial truth, which is untrue. A competent translation of the Greek Testament overwhelmingly establishes full preterism as the only Biblical eschatology. None of the Bible was written to or about people living today.

[TD: To me 'the truth" is not partial in any way.  Please call me at 907-750-0099.]


Date: 17 Aug 2013
Time: 18:29:43

Your Comments:

It is unfortunate that you have left the truth for partial truth, which is untrue. A competent translation of the Greek Testament overwhelmingly establishes full preterism as the only Biblical eschatology. None of the Bible was written to or about people living today.
 


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