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AD70 Dispensationalism: According to that view, AD70 was the end of 'this age' and the start of the 'age to come'.    Those who lived before AD70 could only 'see in part' and such, lacking the resurrection and redemptive blessings which supposedly came only when Herod's Temple in Jerusalem fell.    Accordingly, AD70 was not only the end of Old Testament Judaism, but it was also the end of the revelation of Christianity as seen in the New Testament.

HYPER PRETERISM

"Full preterist" material is being archived for balanced representation of all preterist views, but is classified under the theological term hyper (as in beyond the acceptable range of tolerable doctrines) at this website.  The classification of all full preterism as Hyper Preterism (HyP) is built upon well over a decade of intense research at PreteristArchive.com, and the convictions of the website curator (a former full preterist pastor).  The HyP theology of final resurrection and consummation in the fall of Jerusalem, with its dispensational line in AD70 (end of old age, start of new age), has never been known among authors through nearly 20 centuries of Christianity leading up to 1845, when the earliest known full preterist book was written.  Even though there may be many secondary points of agreement between Historical/Modern Preterism and Hyper Preterism, their premises are undeniably and fundamentally different.

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED AS "HYPER PRETERIST"


DISTINCTLY FULLPRET POSITIONS IN THIS ARTICLE:

  • Christian baptism by water ceased in AD70 (cessationism)

  • The church was saved in AD70

  • God's judgment ceased in AD70

  • "AD70 Dispensationalism"

Systematic Hyper Preterism
(aka "Full Preterism")



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Hyper Preterism: Defining "Hyper Preterism"- Criticisms from the Inside - Criticisms from the Outside || Progressive Pret | Regressive Pret | Former Full Preterists | Pret Scholars | Normative Pret | Reformed Pret | Pret Idealism | Pret Universalism

William Bell
Max King
Don Preston
Larry Siegle
Kurt Simmons
Ed Stevens
 

SOME DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES OF SYSTEMATIZED HYPER PRETERISM

It is important to keep in mind that many ideas and doctrines full preterism appeals to - such as the complete end of the Old Covenant world in AD70 - are by no means distinctive to that view.   Many non HyPs believe this as well, so one need not embrace the Hyper Preterist system in order to endorse this view.   Following are exceptional doctrines which, so far as I've seen, are only taught by adherents of Hyper Preterism.:

DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY STANDARD FULL PRETERISM

  • All Bible Prophecy was Fulfilled By AD70

  • Atonement Incomplete at Cross ; Complete at AD70

  • The Supernatural Power of Evil Ended in AD70

  • The Spirit of Antichrist was Destroyed in AD70

  • "The Consummation of the Ages" Came in AD70

  • "The Millennium" is in the Past, From AD30 to AD70

  • Nothing to be Resurrected From in Post AD70 World ; Hades Destroyed

  • The Christian Age Began in AD70 ; Earth Will Never End

  • "The Day of the Lord" was Israel's Destruction ending in AD70

  • The "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ Took Place in AD70-ish

  • The Great Judgment took place in AD70 ; No Future Judgment

  • The Law, Death, Sin, Devil, Hades, etc. Utterly Defeated in AD70

  • "The Resurrection" of the Dead and Living is Past, Having Taken Place in AD70

  • The Context of the Entire Bible is Pre-AD70 ; Not Written To Post AD70 World

DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY VARIOUS FORMS
(under construction)

  • Baptism was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Lord's Prayer was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Lord's Supper was for Pre-AD70 Era (Cessationism)

  • The Holy Spirit's Paraclete Work Ceased in AD70 (Cessationism)

  • The Consummation in AD70 Caused Church Offices to Cease (Cessationism)

  • The Resurrection in AD70 Changed the "Constitutional Principle" of Marriage (Noyesism)

  • Israel and Humanity Delivered into Ultimate Liberty in AD70 (TransmillennialismTM)

  • The Judgment in AD70 Reconciled All of Mankind to God ; All Saved (Preterist Universalism)

  • Adam's Sin No Longer Imputed in Post AD70 World ; No Need to be Born Again (Preterist Universalism)

  • When Jesus Delivered the Kingdom to the Father in AD70, He Ceased Being The Intermediary (Pantelism/Comprehensive Grace?)

  • The Book of Genesis is an Apocalypse; is About Creation of First Covenant Man, not First Historical Man (Covenantal Preterism)

 

  Baptism Now Saves You

By David A. Green
 

[A good example of AD70 Cessationism.  Also a good demonstration of how "AD70 Dispensationalism" severs identification with the Christianity of the first century through spiritualization.]

     "All the fountains of the great deep burst open and the floodgates of the sky were opened" (Gen. 7:11) after Noah and his family of seven had entered the ark. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, the waters rose above the mountains, "and the ark floated on the surface of the water" (Gen. 7:18). "All flesh that moved on the earth perished" (Gen. 7:21), "and only Noah was left, together with those that were with him in the ark" (Gen. 7:23).

I Peter 3:20,21: "...the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ . . . "

What was the baptism which was saving the first-century saints? We have two basic choices: It was either a ritual baptism or an experiential/spiritual baptism.

If we say that the New-Testament saving baptism to which the Noahic experience corresponded was a ritual baptism, one of many problems immediately presents itself:  It is Biblically incongruous that an old-testament event prefigured a ritual. It is on the other hand an established hermeneutical principle that old-testament rituals prefigured New-Testament events / experiences / realities. And since old-testament rituals (such as sacrifices) symbolized New-Testament non-rituals (such as the death of Christ/the believer’s sacrifice of praise), it seems even more likely that the non-ritual Noahic salvation foreshadowed a New-Testament non-ritual baptism.

But ignoring this obstacle for now, let us examine how I Peter 3:21 might be understood to teach that the salvation of Noah and his family in the ark could have somehow typified a ritual-baptism:

Perhaps Peter might have been speaking of one of the ritual baptisms mentioned in Heb. 9:10,13,19-22 ("various washings" in 9:10 is literally "various baptisms"). The problem with this proposal is that those baptisms were only to be "imposed until a time of reformation" (Heb. 9:10), that is, until the consummation of the old covenant. It is hardly believable that ritual-baptisms which could not perfect one's conscience (Heb. 9:9), and which were destined to be done away in the disappearance of the old covenant (Heb. 8:13; 9:10) were "saving" the Christians in the apostolic era.

But perhaps Peter was talking about the ritual-baptism which was being administered to converts to Christianity. If we are going to say this, we must first of all prove that Christian ritual-baptism was not included in the various baptisms of Heb. 9:10 which were only to be imposed until A.D. 70. If Christian ritual-baptism came out of the old covenant, and was thus to be no longer "imposed" after A.D. 70, then it is axiomatic that Christian ritual-baptism was not the saving baptism of I Peter 3:21. (We will save a discussion on the cessation or continuation of Christian ritual-baptism for another place.)

There is another problem with the idea of the saving baptism in I Peter 3:21 being a ritual, and that is the tense of the verb "saves." The verb is present tense, active voice, and the phrase literally reads, "baptism is now saving you." The meaning seems to be that just as Noah and his family were in process of being saved by a baptism in the ark, so were the first-century believers in process of being saved by baptism. This should further lead us to consider the saving baptism as being experiential/spiritual.

Thus far, general hermeneutical principles of typology, the weakness and temporary nature of the old-covenant rituals and the tense of the verb "saves" direct us toward the idea that the baptism of I Peter 3:21 might be a non-ritual, experiential/spiritual baptism. But what kind of a non-ritual baptism could have been in process of saving the first-century Christians?

 

Spiritual Baptism

The first New-Testament reference to a non-ritual baptism is found in Matt. 3:11 (and Mk. 1:8; Lk. 3:16; cf. Acts 1:5), where John the Baptizer said, "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He Who is Coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." {1}

The old covenant could offer only typical and temporary ritual-baptisms such as the one John was offering. {2} But Christ was coming to administer the true, spiritual, New-Testament Baptism to the people of Israel, which baptism was first experienced on the miraculous day of Pentecost where the Scripture was fulfilled: "I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind" (Acts 2:17,18; Joel 2:28,29). The baptism was later accompanied by signs a second time in Acts 10:44-46; 11:15,17 when the first Gentiles were converted to Christ. As Peter said concerning that time, "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also" and, "the Holy Spirit fell upon them" (Acts 10:45; 11:15). {3} Subsequently, the Lord baptized all believers with the Holy Spirit: "For with one Spirit (cf. Eph. 4:5) we were all baptized into one Body" (I Cor. 12:13).

In this spiritual light we should understand Gal. 3:27, "All of you who were baptized into Christ {4} have clothed yourselves with Christ"; and Col. 2:11,12, "In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, . . . having been buried with [Christ] in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God . . . "; and Rom. 6:3,4, "All of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life."

Spiritual baptism coincides with receiving the Spirit of God (Acts 2:17,18; 10:45; 11:15), with being spiritually clothed with Christ (Gal. 3:27) and with being circumcised with the circumcision made without hands (Col. 2:11,12). And as we shall see, the ongoing spiritual baptism for the believer is equivalent with being daily and experientially unified/identified (Ps. 133:1,2; Rom. 6:5; Eph. 4:3-13) with Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Rom. 6:1-11).

 

Union With Christ

Union/identity with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection is the essence of Spiritual baptism. In I Peter, it is the "suffering" or "fiery" aspect of Spiritual baptism for Christians which is the running theme. Peter wrote his epistle to the persecuted, scattered Jewish believers who were living as aliens and strangers (1:1; 2:11). Many of them were being distressed by various trials (1:6), being slandered, reviled and maligned (2:12; 3:16; 4:4,14); their faith was being tested by fire (1:7).

This same baptism was predicted by Jesus in Matt. 20:22,23 (AV); Mk. 10:38,39 (cf. Lk. 12:50), where Jesus asked James and John, "Are you able to . . . be baptized with the baptism which I am baptized?" And they answered, "We are able." And Jesus said, ". . . You shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized."

Christ was prophesying to His disciples that they were going to become sharers of His sufferings, i.e., they were going to be experientially/spiritually unified and identified with Him in His sufferings, death and burial. They were going to be "crucified with Him" (Rom. 6:6; Gal. 2:20; 5:24) through persecution, but were also going to endure unto victory through the power of Christ’s resurrection.

Union with Christ in His sufferings was further borne out in I Peter when Peter told his readers that it was their calling to patiently endure their persecutions, just as Christ when He suffered, kept entrusting Himself to God (2:23). "Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose" (4:1), and, "you share the sufferings of Christ" (4:12,13).

It was this spiritual baptism which was saving the first-century Christians. Just as a small remnant, eight souls (I Peter 3:20), had been brought safely through the flood waters in Noah’s day (I Peter 3:20), so was a small remnant (Rom. 9:27,29) being brought safely through the fire of God's last-days wrath (Matt. 24:38,39; Lk. 17:26,27; II Peter 2:5-9) {5} in the first century.

Their saving-baptism was a refining, purifying baptism, as they were being sovereignly preserved by God through the persecution of their Jewish brothers until the end of the age. As Paul said in II Cor. 4:17, "For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all" (Cf. Acts 14:22).

 

Not the Cleansing of the Flesh, but a Good Conscience

What did Peter mean when he said that the saving baptism was "not the removal of the filth of the flesh?" Heb. 9:8-10 helps us to understand this: "[At] the present time, . . . both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to . . . various baptisms, regulations for the flesh imposed until a time of reformation."

Ritual baptisms removed the filth of the flesh, or as Heb. 9:13 reiterates it, they only "sanctified for the cleansing of the flesh." That was their purpose. They could not make the worshipers perfect in conscience. Only Spiritual baptism could effect that result. In saying then, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh," Peter was explaining to his readers that the baptism that saves is not ritual ("not the removal of dirt from the flesh") but Spiritual.

This spiritual, experiential, saving baptism of suffering was for Peter's brothers "an appeal to God for a good conscience." As I Peter 2:19 says: "For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a man bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly," and in I Peter 3:16,17, "Keep a good conscience . . . For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right . . . "

Paul wrote similarly in II Cor. 1:12 of the intense sufferings of the apostles: "For our proud confidence is this, the testimony of our consciences, that in holiness and godly sincerity, . . .we have conducted ourselves in the world . . . "

The writer of Hebrews also, in writing to his persecuted brothers, promised a clean conscience through Spiritual baptism, in Heb. 9:14, ". . . the blood of Christ . . .[will] cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God."

Without the cleansing baptism from God above, the Church was not, and could not, be ultimately saved, for it was only that divine baptism of Spirit-power that could keep the Church faithful and spotless through the fiery judgment of God unto the end. {6}

 

Conclusion

As Noah and his family endured patiently in the ark, so were the first-century Christians patiently enduring a spiritual/fiery baptism, sharing the sufferings of Christ. Old-Covenant baptisms were a fading and ceremonial removal of the filth of the flesh, but New-Covenant, Spiritual baptism in Christ became the appeal of a good conscience toward God (Heb. 10:2). By means of it, believers remained faithful through the power of God in Christ, and thus retained a clean conscience (I Peter 3:16). And as Christ was exalted after He patiently endured, His Church-Body was called and chosen through His resurrection-power to soon be exalted with Him in the end of the old-covenant age.


Footnotes:

1. The predicted baptizing with the Holy Spirit here is a future-active baptizing, which corresponds with the present-active saving work of the baptism in I Peter 3:21, indicating that I Peter 3:21 is a record of the fulfillment of John's prediction of the coming spiritual baptism.

2. The fact that John was administering an old-testament ritual is borne out in Jn. 1:25 where the Pharisees asked him, "Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ?" We should infer from this question that the Scriptures teach that Messiah was to come baptizing as John was doing, and that John was thus working in accordance with the Law.

3. Note that the mode of Spiritual baptism in these passages was pouring. It is not unlikely then that John's baptism, which was a symbol/foreshadow of Spiritual baptism, was administered by pouring (or sprinkling), the water coming from above as the Spirit from heaven.

The references below demonstrate that the old testament confirms that Spiritual baptism was not an immersion but a pouring/sprinkling:

Isa. 44:3, "For I will pour out water on the thirsty land and streams on the dry ground; I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring, and My Blessing on your descendants."

Zech. 12:10, "And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced...." (See also, Prov. 1:23, Isa. 32:15;45:8; Eze. 39:29).

Isa. 52:15, "He will sprinkle many nations."

Eze.36:25, "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols."

4. Christian ritual-baptism was administered with water, and was a baptism "into the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" in Matt. 28:19; "into the Name of the Lord Jesus" in Acts 8:16; 19:5; "in the Name of the Lord" in Acts 10:48 (Some manuscripts have for Acts 10:48, "in the name of Jesus Christ"); and "on the name of Jesus Christ" in Acts 2:38. (Cf. I Cor. 1:13,15).

In contrast, spiritual/experiential baptism is administered by God with His Spirit, and is a baptism not into the "name" of, but into Jesus Christ in I Cor. 12:13; Rom. 6:3; and Gal. 3:27 (Cf. I Cor. 10:2).

The difference between being baptized into the name of someone and being baptized into someone is the difference between ritual and experiential baptism. The one is a sign and the other is a reality.

5. It was a fiery baptism (I Peter 4:12) of which Peter spoke as being the antitype to the experience of Noah and his family "through waters," even as Peter made the same water/fire parallel in his second epistle:

"...The world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire..." (II Peter 3:6,7).

6. Note that the mode of the various baptisms which could not make the worshipers perfect in conscience in Heb. 9:9,10 was explained to be that of "sprinkling" in Heb. 9:13,19,21. Note also (below) that the mode of Spiritual baptism in the context of keeping a good conscience is spoken of as "sprinkling." That baptism was the sprinkling of the redeeming blood of Christ on the hearts of believers:

Heb. 10:22 (cf. 12:24), "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, our hearts having been sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our body having been washed in pure water [of the Word]." (Cf. Eph. 5:26).

I Peter 1:2, "...unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."

It is also helpful to note here that Christ's "one baptism" of the Church with the Holy Spirit was a triune baptism:

1. a pouring out of His "Spirit" upon the Church (uniting the church with Christ),

2. a spiritual sprinkling of His "blood" on the heart of the Church (creating a clean heart and conscience), and

3. a spiritual washing of the Church body with pure spiritual "water" in the Word (making the body and works of the Church acceptable to God).

This reveals the meaning of I Jn. 5:8: "There are three who bear witness on the earth: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three agree in one."

What do YOU think ?

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Date: 01 May 2006
Time: 23:11:35

Comments:

I just read this phone conversation, if I wasn't a Preterist already this conversation would have convinced me, that Danny was the only one making any real sense and logic out of the scriptures they all used. Anything other than fulfilled eschatology makes the Lord sound like He just couldn't do all that He came to do and said He'd do. Sounds like the Gentiles miss the second coming, like the Jews missed the first. Get to the heart of the Gospel, read the book, that was written to them, for us and see how the truth be told, Jesus told His deciples, Matt; 24:34 This generation, their generation, not ours, shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. There are at least 200 or more of this kind of statement to be read, keep in mind, who is He speaking to, did He do what He came to do, when He was on the cross, did He not say, it is finished? What's left, why? What's the reason behind coming back to this earth?
 


Date: 28 Aug 2009
Time: 04:56:52

Your Comments:

Well there may be 3 that...bear witness...But thats an injected interpretation..don't you think...it could be close to the 3...but might not be exactly how they bear witness
 


Date: 21 Sep 2009
Time: 10:12:20

Your Comments:

Water Baptism is a submission to death. You are put into a watery grave and because your sins have been forgiven you rise to walk in newness of life. The word Baptism was never translated so as to show that it is not a sprinkling but a buriel in Water--this is the form of doctrine to be obeyed in Romans 6.
The benefits of water baptism in the name of the father, the son, and they holy spirit are twofold: Forgiveness of sins--that is why we rise
and the receiving of God's indwelling spirit that will raise us physically from our graves at the end of time and restore Creation back to it original state--undoing the curse that Adam brought by his sin. Roman 8
John said jesus would baptize with The spirit and fire.
This was acomplished when the spirit was poured out on pentacost
and then the fire baptism happend when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 a.d. by titus(abomination of desolation)
The mode of baptism has alway been by immersion
and for forgiveness of sins because of the sacrifice of the cross
It has never been by sprinkling--there is not a corralation made between water baptism and the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit and in fact the pouring of the Spirit on pentacost is actually and immersion of all flesh
 

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