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Historicism vs. Futurism

By Pastor Irvin Baxter Jr.

There are two major positions when it comes to interpreting the prophecies of the Bible. One belief holds that the prophecies of the Bible largely pertain to the end times, and are either being fulfilled now or are yet to come. This position is known as the Futurist belief. The other position is called Preterist or Historicist. Those holding this position contend that the prophecies of the Bible are largely, if not entirely, fulfilled and past. The Futurist position has been the view held by the majority of Christians for at least the last century. However, the Historicist position seems to be reasserting itself of late. Our purpose today is not to cast reflection on those who may sincerely hold either of these views. We do want to examine both positions in light of scripture to see which of these is biblical.

Defining Historicism
One of the most well known of the historicist writings is a book by Ralph Woodrow

entitled Great Prophecies of the Bible. We will use his teachings to present the Historicist position as fairly and accurately as possible.

Major prophetic doctrines of Historicism are as follows:
1. The prophecy of Daniel's 70 Weeks has already been fulfilled in its entirety.
2. The Antichrist is not one particular man, but has been fulfilled by the papacy of the Roman Catholic Church. We should not be expecting an Antichrist to appear in the future.
3. The prophesied ten-horn kingdom existed at the time of the dissolution of the Roman Empire, and the papacy rose up among these ten kings.
4. The Great Tribulation lasted 1,260 years and is now past. There will not be a time of great tribulation at the Second Coming. (Woodward does believe in a Second Coming of Jesus. Apparently, some Historicists do not.)
5. The events of Jesus" prophecy in Matthew 24 have already been fulfilled and do not pertain to our times today.

The Futurist position
1. There is a gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel's 70 Weeks" prophecy. The first 69 weeks have been fulfilled. The 70th week, a seven-year period, is yet to come to pass.
2. Though there have been many antichrists throughout the years, the Bible prophesies one Antichrist who will rule a one-world government for three and one-half years immediately before the coming of Jesus Christ at Armageddon.
3. The prophesied ten-horn kingdom is yet to appear on earth, and the Antichrist will arise among these ten kings.
4. The Great Tribulation is yet future and will last for three and one-half years. (Some Futurists believe it will last for seven years.) It will occur during the last half of Daniel's 70th week, and will be terminated when the Antichrist is destroyed by Jesus Christ at Armageddon.
5. Most of Jesus' prophecies in Matthew 24 deal with events of the endtime and have yet to be fulfilled.

Step by step

Has the prophecy of Daniel's 70 Weeks already been fulfilled in its entirety?
There are several aspects of the Historicist interpretation of Daniel's 70 Weeks prophecy that we want to examine. Lets look at the prophecy found in Daniel 9:24-27.

24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Who is the "he" that will confirm the covenant for seven years?
Historicists believe the Messiah is the one who was prophesied to confirm the covenant. Futurists teach that it will be the "prince that shall come"--the Antichrist. This question is very easy to answer.

Notice that the same "he" that is to confirm the covenant is also to take away the daily sacrifice and place the Abomination of Desolation (verse 27). Daniel 11:30-31 tells us in no uncertain terms that it is the Antichrist (the king of the north) and his followers who take away the daily sacrifice and place the Abomination of Desolation.

30 "For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."


This passage is obviously not referring to the Messiah. Would the Messiah ever "have indignation against the holy covenant? Would He ever "pollute the sanctuary of strength? Obviously not! The entirety of Daniel 11:21-45 is discussing the actions of the king of the north--the Antichrist.

So we can see clearly that it is the Antichrist, not the Messiah, who takes away the daily sacrifice and places the Abomination of Desolation.

Remember that the one who takes away the daily sacrifice also is the one who confirms the covenant according to Daniel 9:27. So we know for certain that it is the Antichrist, not the Messiah, who will confirm the covenant for seven years. Daniel 11:22 strengthens this proof when it calls the king of the north (the Antichrist) the "prince of the covenant."
This one proof totally destroys the foundation of the Historicist position. However, there are several other aspects of this question that we want to examine.

Confirming the covenant for seven years
Daniel 9:27 says that "he" will confirm the covenant for one week (seven years). Historicists say that Jesus confirmed the covenant of the New Testament during his three and one-half years of ministry. He was then crucified in the midst of the week (after 3 1/2 years), and then was caught up into heaven 43 days later. Herein lies the problem.
How did Jesus confirm the covenant for the last three and one-half years of the 70th week since he was gone from the earth? The only escape from this dilemma is to say that God continued to deal with the Jews through His church for three and one-half years after His ascension. However, there is no historical or biblical proof that God turned from Jew to Gentile exactly three and one-half years after the crucifixion.

In Great Prophecies of the Bible, Woodward says that the confirming of the covenant with the Jews during the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week was finished 3 1/2 years after Jesus' ascension. He claims this was when God sent Peter to preach to a Gentile, Cornelius in Acts 10. However, there is no scriptural or historical proof for this assertion. This claim has to be made in order for the doctrine that Jesus is the one that confirmed the covenant to fit. Of course, we have already proven that this is not true anyway.

The 70th Week--past or future
The Historicists contend that there is no gap between the 69th week and the 70th week in Daniel's prophecy, even though they are spoken of separately in Daniel's account. How can we know whether the 70th week is already fulfilled or yet to happen?

Daniel 9:27 tells us that the taking away of the daily sacrifice and the Abomination of Desolation happens in the midst of the 70th week. If we can prove when the Abomination of Desolation takes place, then we can know when the 70th week occurs.

Historicists say that the daily sacrifice was taken away by the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But we have already proven by Daniel 11:30-31 that this is not true. This passage plainly says that the taking away of the daily sacrifice and the placing of the Abomination of Desolation will be done by the Antichrist and those that forsake the holy covenant. So what is the Abomination of Desolation, and when does it take place?

When will the Abomination of Desolation occur?
Jesus referred to the Abomination of Desolation in Matthew 24:15. He plainly said that the Abomination of Desolation would be the event that launched the Great Tribulation.

15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains...
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
Matthew 24:15-16, 21

The Great Tribulation will last for three and one-half years. We know this because Daniel 7:25 says the little horn, the Antichrist, will wear out the saints of the most High for a time, times and the dividing of time. A time is one year, times is two years, and the dividing of time is one-half year, for a total of three and one-half years.

How do we know that time, times and the dividing of time is three and one-half years? We can determine this because another description of this time of Great Tribulation is given in Revelation 13:5-8. It states that the beast, the Antichrist, will make war against the saints for 42 months. Of course, three and one-half years and 42 months is the exact same amount of time.

Revelation 12:5-14 also teaches that the Great Tribulation lasts for three and one-half years. It says that the woman (Israel) will flee from the persecution of the dragon (Satan) for 1,260 days. One-thousand two-hundred threescore days also equals three and one-half years.

As we can see, every single reference to the Great Tribulation in the Bible states that it will last for three and one-half years.

Jesus said that the Abomination of Desolation would begin the Great Tribulation. Since we know that the Great Tribulation lasts for three and one-half years, we know that the Abomination of Desolation occurs three and one-half years before the Battle of Armageddon. Daniel 9:27 says that the Abomination of Desolation takes place in the middle of the seven years known as Daniel's 70th Week. This proves that the Great Tribulation fills the last half of this seven-year period.

Abomination of Desolation happens three and one-half years before the Second Coming
Matthew 24:29 tells us that, immediately after the Great Tribulation, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give her light, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. If the Great Tribulation has already happened, as the Historicist viewpoint contends, when did all these things come to pass? Obviously, they haven't.

Verse 30-31 continues right on to tell us--"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

This passage clearly states that, immediately after the tribulation, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven. It continues on to say that, right after that, Jesus will come in the clouds, the people of the earth will see Him, and he will send his angels with a sound of a great trumpet to gather His elect.

Are we to believe that Jesus has already come back? Has He in some mysterious way secretly gathered His elect? Of course not!

The conclusion is simply unavoidable. The Historicist view that all these things have already happened is simply not true.

What is the Abomination of Desolation?
Some Historicists teach that the Abomination of Desolation was fulfilled in 167 BC when Antiochus Epiphanes offered a pig on the altar in the Jews" Second Temple. We know that this could not possibly be the Abomination of Desolation because in Matthew 24:15 Jesus taught that the Abomination of Desolation was an event that was yet future. The actions of Antiochus Epiphanes occurred at least 200 years before Jesus said this.

In Great Prophecies of the Bible, Woodward teaches that the Abomination of Desolation was when the Roman armies were encamped round about Jerusalem before its destruction in 70 AD. We know this can't possibly be true because a covenant was supposed to have been confirmed 3 1/2 years prior to the Abomination of Desolation. Nothing like that happened.

Immediately after the 3 1/2 year tribulation triggered by the Abomination of Desolation, the sun was to be darkened, the moon was to not give her light, and the stars were to fall from heaven. If the Abomination of Desolation occurred prior to 70 AD, when did these things happen?

Matthew 24:30-31 teaches us that, right after the sun is darkened and the stars fall from heaven, the Lord will send His angels to gather His elect and the inhabitants of the earth will see Him. If the Abomination of Desolation had happened around 70 AD, the Lord would have gathered His elect at that time. Did anything like that happen? Of course not! The surrounding of Jerusalem by the Romans was not the Abomination of Desolation.

What then is this event called the Abomination of Desolation? Matthew 24:15 tells us that the Abomination of Desolation will stand in the holy place. Where was the holy place?--In the Jewish temple, of course.

The Apostle Paul describes the Abomination of Desolation in II Thessalonians 2:3-4.

3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Paul says here that the man of sin, the Antichrist, will sit "In the temple of God." Where did Jesus say that the Abomination of Desolation would take place in Matthew 24:15?--In the holy place which was in the temple. Paul went on to say that the Antichrist would sit in the temple of God claiming to be God. This is the event known as the Abomination of Desolation. It is placed by the Antichrist, not by Jesus Christ.

So what have we learned about Daniel's 70 Weeks prophecy?
1. It is the Antichrist, not the Messiah, who will confirm the covenant for seven years.
2. It is the Antichrist that takes away the daily sacrifice and places the Abomination of Desolation.
3. The Abomination of Desolation signals the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
4. The Great Tribulation lasts for three and one-half years--th last three and one-half years of Daniel's 70th week.
5. Immediately after the Great Tribulation, Jesus appears, sending his angels to gather His elect. At this time those dwelling on earth shall see him.
Once we understand these things, it becomes obvious that Daniel's 70th week is a future event, not something past.

Antichrist: Future or Past?
Another prominent view of the Historicists is that there will not be a future Antichrist.

Historicists say that the prophecies about the Antichrist have been fulfilled by the papacy of the Roman Catholic Church. They teach that the ten-horn beast of Daniel 7 symbolized the Roman Empire. They claim that the Roman Empire was divided into ten Gothic tribes and that the Roman papacy and the Roman Catholic Church arose from among these tribes. Since so much persecution has been perpetrated against Christians by the papacy, Historicists believe this has fulfilled the prophecies concerning the Great Tribulation.

We have to acknowledge that tremendous persecution has been carried out against Christians by the papacy over the last 1,700 years. It is estimated that over 50 million Christians have died in these persecutions because they would not profess belief in the doctrines of Roman Catholicism. There is no doubt that the harlot on the back of the beast in Revelation 17 is the Roman Catholic Church. But does this mean that the papacy fulfilled the prophecies about the Antichrist?
In order to answer this question, we need to understand that several different names are used in scripture to refer to the Antichrist. He is called the man of sin, the son of perdition, the little horn, that wicked one and the beast. Most commonly today he is simply referred to as the Antichrist.

The Bible teaches us that there will be two evil personages on earth at the time of the Second Coming of Christ--the Antichrist and the False Prophet. This is taught in Revelation 19:19-20.

19 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Notice that both the beast (the Antichrist) and the False Prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire when Jesus comes to earth at the time of the Battle of Armageddon. This means they will both be alive on earth at that time. If we say that the coming of the Antichrist is not future, we also must say that the Second Coming and the Battle of Armageddon are not future events either. Even the Historicists admit that the Second Coming of Jesus is a future event.

The teaching that ten Gothic tribes growing out of the old Roman Empire fulfilled the ten-horn kingdom cannot be true. We know this because these ten tribes no longer are identifiable on earth. Yet the Bible explicitly prophesies in several places that the ten kings will be in power at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus.

In the prophecy of Nebuchadnezzari's image in Daniel 2, the ten toes on the image represent the same thing as the ten horns on the beast in Daniel 7 and in Revelation 17.
It states in Daniel 2:44

"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."

Notice that this passage clearly says that God will establish his kingdom "in the days of these kings." What kings?--the prophesied ten-nation union that will be the power base of the Antichrist.


Revelation 17:12 teaches the same thing--

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

These ten kings receive power for a very short period of time with the beast, the Antichrist.

The Bible also says that this ten-nation union will fight against Jesus Christ when He returns to earth with His saints. We know this from verse 14.

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

The prophesied ten kings will be on earth with the Antichrist at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus to earth. These ten kings will actually fight against Jesus Christ Himself.

All of these things prove conclusively that the Antichrist is yet to appear on earth. We also know that the ten kings were not to appear 1,600 years ago. The fact is--their appearance on the world scene lies just ahead of us now!

Will the pope be the Antichrist as Historicists claim?
Bible prophecy teaches us that the Antichrist will come out of a revived Holy Roman Empire. There have always been two leaders in the Holy Roman Empire--a political leader and a spiritual leader. The Holy Roman Empire was originally established in 800 AD when Pope Leo III placed the crown on the head of Charlemagne. He declared, I now crown you emperor of the Holy Roman Empire."

The Holy Roman Empire has ruled off and on since that time. Each time it has reared its head, it has always featured a political leader and a spiritual leader working together to establish a world dominating empire.

It will be the same arrangement under the endtime world government of the Antichrist. The political leader will be the Antichrist, and the spiritual leader will be the False Prophet. So we can see clearly that the pope will not be the Antichrist. However, it is also obvious that whoever is pope at the time of the Antichrist will be the False Prophet.

The Great Tribulation--past or future?
In Great Prophecies of the Bible, pages 69-70, Ralph Woodrow teaches that the Great Tribulation began at the Roman invasion of Jerusalem in 70 AD. On page 172, he states that the 1,260 days of Great Tribulation really speak of 1,260 years of Great Tribulaiton--believing that each day represents a year. If this were true, the Great Tribulation should have been completed somewhere around 1330 AD. But does this harmonize at all with what the Bible says about the Great Tribulation?

Daniel 7:21-22 plainly teaches that the Antichrist will make war against the saints until the coming of Jesus Christ to establish His kingdom.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom."

Matthew 24:29-31 affirms the exact same thing.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Notice that this passage states that, immediately after the tribulation of those days, the coming of the Son of man will take place.

On every major point of prophetic understanding, the Historicist view inevitably ends up in conflict with scripture. As we have seen, the evidence is absolutely overwhelming that this view is simply not what the Bible teaches.

However, it should be noted that some prophetic fulfillment is now history. For example, the rebirth of the nation of Israel, prophesied in Ezekiel 37, came to pass in 1948. In my book, A Message for the President, it was taught from the prophecies of the Bible that the Berlin Wall would come down and the New World Order would result. These prophetic fulfillments are now history.

I believe it can be proven that the first three seals of Revelation 6 have now been opened (see Lesson 4 of Understanding the Endtime). The farther we move into the endtime, the more of the prophecies will be fulfilled and become history rather than futuristic.

What is important?
The Historicist vs. Futurist discussion is not a salvation issue and should not be allowed to become divisive in the church at a time when our attention should be focused on reaching the lost. However, proper understanding concerning prophetic fulfillment is vital if we are to accomplish God's will for these endtimes.

Daniel 11:32-33 reveals what God's people should be doing right now: the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. And they that understand among the people shall instruct many--" If we don't understand, how can we help someone else?

Rev. Irvin Baxter, Jr. is the pastor of Oak Park Church Of Jesus Christ in Richmond, Indiana and the director of Endtime Ministries. Pastor Baxter can be reached throughhis website www.endtime.com.

What do YOU think ?

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Date:
23 Sep 2003
Time:
14:29:05

Comments

Irvin Baxter, Jr. has a LIVE radio broadcast weekdays 3 to 4 p.m. Central Time. It is broadcast in all the English speaking world via shortwave, and in many major areas of the US via AM and FM radio. You can call in and discuss prophecy related topics with him and his co-host Eddie Sax. He says he has the answers to refute preterism. Call him and see. His show's numer is: 1-765-962-6344


Date:
25 Sep 2003
Time:
10:36:49

Comments

It's hard to believe that there are still some who can't see that Dan. 11:36-45 refers to Herod the Great. Chapter IX of Philip Mauro's "The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation," available online, makes that fact crystal clear.


Date:
16 Nov 2003
Time:
15:13:29

Comments

Irvin Baxter does not speak for all Post-Tribs. There exist an entire group of Futurist Post-Tribs who DO NOT hold that the 70th week of Daniel is separated by an unknown gap of time from the 69th. We New Covenant Post-Tribs believe the 70th week expired 31/2 years into the Church age and was for natural Israel alone. When this time expired Gentiles were grafted into the New Testament Israel, the Church. We oppose all Preterist views as heresy. We oppose futurist dispensationalism as heresy. We do view prophetic interpretation as salvational, just ask the Jews how important it was to understand propehcy correctly. When Preterist and Dispensatioanlist, including Dispensational Post-Tribs, deal with New Covenant Post-Tribs and our interpretation of prophecy they cannot deny our position easily. Baxter is a Dispensational Post-Trib and therefore he is exactly like the Pre-Tribs in interpretation. All he as changed is the time of the rapture. Pastor G. Reckart http://jesus-messiah.com


Date:
01 Jan 2004
Time:
19:53:10

Comments

I guess I can just say It really doesnt matter Who exactly He is He and When is When. All I know is that Jesus is coming back very soon and I want to be ready when he does. I am intrested in end time prophecy but the most important thing is to bring as many people as we can with us when he comes to get his faithful. I guess we will find out exacts when they happen. I don't believe that one person can know what is going to happen but I do beleive that God gave us many warnings and clues so we should pay attation to them and try our best to understand his word.


Date:
17 Jan 2004
Time:
05:12:49

Comments

I really liked what you said. Very clear!


Date:
09 Apr 2004
Time:
08:10:48

Comments

Pastor Baxter states in No. 4 under "Defining Historicism" that some Historicists do not believe in the 2nd coming of Jesus. I would like more information on that statement, specifically what does he mean--since my understanding is the physical return of Jesus Christ? Thank you. My email is j_shope@yahoo.com


Date:
16 Aug 2004
Time:
15:18:27

Comments

DEAR BRO. BAXTER, I READ SOME OF THE AGUEMENTAL RESPOND FROM ANOTHER PERSON. ABOUT THE ABOMINATION BOOK OF DANIEL. YOU MUST HAVE ALOT'S OF THIS LETTERS THAT YOU RECEIVE EVERY DAY. THE REASON I AM WRITING YOU A LETTER NOT SURE THIS IS THE RIGHT PLACE TO TALK ABOUT IT. OR MAYBE YOU HAVE ANOTHER E-MAIL THAT I CAN WRITE YOU A LETTER. I HAD SEEN A VISION RECENTLY. I SAW A STAR A SIZE OF A QUARTER IN OUR CHURCH. I SAW THIS SO MANY TIMES. DIFFERENT YEAR AND MONTHS. ONE TIME I SAW THIS STAR WHILE MY PASTOR WAS PREACHING IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ISLE. WAS VERY BRIGHT AND SHINY. SEEMS LIKE THERE IS A LIFE ON THIS STAR. IT WAS JUMPING WAS SHINING. IT STAY THERE FOR AWHILE. WHEN MY PASTOR TO CALL THE PEOPLE TO PRAY IN THE FRONT LINE. THAT'S THE TIME STAR IT DISAPPEAR. RECENTLY I SAW THIS STAR AGAIN THE MONTH OF AUGUST THIS YEAR. IT WAS SHINING BUT IT DOESN'T JUMP IT ONLY STAY IN ONE POSITION SAW IN THE FLOOR. NO ONE SEE THIS EXCEPT ME. COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT IS THIS MEAN. DO YOU THINK THIS REPRESENT AS SPIRITUAL MEANING. I AM ASKING GOD TO SHOW ME THE MEANING WHAT IS THAT MEAN? I AM BAPTIZE IN JESUS NAME ONLY. I REPENTED. I HAD THE HOLY GHOST. I BEEN IN A CHURCH FOR ALMOST 18 YEARS. PLEASE, RESPOND TO ME. MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IS BALVCTR@AOL.COM THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME READING THIS MESSAGE. SIS. VICTORIA


Date:
04 Mar 2005
Time:
15:22:42

Comments

I would like to correct one thing written by Pastor Baxter. At the time of his writing Ralph Woodrow was a confessed Historicist but he is now a papist Preterist. See: http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/woodrow-ralph_pp_01.html Ralph has also decided his famous Two Babylons is also now to be taken as novice trash, because he has Mystery Babylon destroyed in 70AD centuries before there was a Catholic Church. You can throw his Two Babylons in the trash now! His conversion to Preterism has made his previous works false! If you desire to read his recent recanting that Christmas is a pagan holiday search for his book "Christmas Reconsidered." Here is a bit of Pastor Reckart's satire concerning this new papist: http://jesus-messiah.com/html/woodrow.html In the last days many shall depart from the faith. We were warned. Now we will see just who the real men of God are and the tares. The tares are starting to be revealed. Pastor G. Reckart


Date: 01 Jul 2006
Time: 19:31:25

Comments:

History tends to repeat itself. Mankind keeps doing the same things again and again. I believe that both views hold some water. I can see the things in history that happened but I believe they will happen again. So, I guess I am both a historist and a futurist. The devil is the author of confusion and if he can muddy that water and confuse people, he will. He is the great counterfeiter and can cause similar things to happen in the past to confuse us about the future. The devil likes nothing better than to get us arguing about our different opinions. We may disagree on some things but as long as we both believe that Jesus came and died for our sins and saved us, then we should respect others' opinions on the other things. I dont believe any two people agree one hundred percent on theology. I am open to look at what other people have to say, but it better line up with the Bible or I dismiss it.


Date: 09 Jul 2006
Time: 23:46:21

Comments:

I was surprised that this article indicates that Preterism and Historicism are the same belief. This is completely incorrect!
Preterism and what we now call Futurism were both 'created' by the Jesuits during the counter reformation in an attempt to squash the protestant reformation and misdirect the finger from the Catholic system as the fulfillment of the antichrist power seen in prophecy.
Historicism is what was believed throughout the centuries by the great majority of Christians, and for many still is what most clearly explains the prophecies.
-Rob


Date: 26 Jul 2007
Time: 10:50:31

Comments:

The gap between the 69th and the 70th week is evident when you read HIS word line by line and precept by precept.The 70 weeks have to do with Daniels people, which at the time being written refers to the Isarelites . The gap between the 69th and 70th week is the time when GOD is dealing with HIS church.
 


Date: 03 Jan 2008
Time: 05:17:23

Comments:

Irving,

I remember watching a video about prophecy from you years ago. You covered the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. At the time, I thought it was quite informative.
But since the emergence of radical Islam, I have changed my views a bit.
Thanks for this article.

God bless,
Jim
 


Date: 13 May 2008
Time: 01:07:11

Comments:

Pastor Baxter has done nothing but take certain points from the Historicist view and in my opinion prove that those views don't agree with scripture. I read an article written from a Historicist point of view and it left me with more questions than answers. Pastor Baxter's article was very clear and easy to understand, so I guess that makes me a "Futurist"...what do I win???lol...The point is no matter which view we hold to...Jesus is Lord and he is returning for a church without spot, wrinkle, blemish, or any such thing...so lets gather as many souls as we can and be prepared to leave ourselves. May God bless us all


Date: 19 Mar 2009
Time: 10:03:30

Your Comments:

Irvin Baxter mistakenly said Historicism is also called Preterism. A former close associate of his, who worked with him in his magazine called ENDTIME, informed him of that error, indicating Baxter did not actually and correctly study the issue out before making this article.


Date: 04 Jan 2010
Time: 20:19:46

Your Comments:

Pastor Baxter,
Why don't you actually READ Ralph Woodrow's book (GREAT PROPHECIES) and you would LEARN the answers
instead of ATTACKING the man.
There are other books & booklets on the subject, if
you REALLY HAVE AN OPEN & UNBIASED MIND!
I followed the teaching of the FUTURIST CAMP for years, and finally saw that it was riddled with (mind set) holes all in it.
READ THE BOOK dear Brother, and ask God to reveal WHICH IS TRUE and which is overworked imagination.


Date: 28 Feb 2010
Time: 01:33:09

Your Comments:

I studied Futurism for many years and realized absolutely nothing is prohibiting Christ from returning as it was told in Acts chapter(1). In (1 Thess.chapter 1:7-10) Paul paints a picture of Christ's 2nd coming in flaming fire as Peter also does in (2 Peter chapter 3:10).In other words, futurism teaches more than one 2nd coming of Christ.The bible does not support this teaching anywhere.Therefore,if Christ taught his coming as a thief in the night he will come in an hour we realize not.The key verse to disprove "futurism" view is Revelation Chapter 1:1 concerning the things to shortly come to pass when John recieved the vision in that day.The word "shortly" in the greek is translated "speedily".The symbolisms,metaphors,and types are mainly directed towards the churches relation in human history in it's conquest to spread the gospel in the midst of persecution by her enemies.Why would it take 2000 plus years to finally fulfill the events of Revelation in a 7 year span.Anyone is in error if you hold to "futuristic Dispensationalism". Luther,Henry,Wesley,Edwards,Moody,and manny many great reformers believed in a historical application of The Revelation.It was John Darby who propogated Dispensationalism,then later Scofield who marketed this teaching.The apostles teachings completely and would utterly reject it.

 


Date: 21 May 2010
Time: 10:28:13

Your Comments:

Greetings Brother Irvin Baxter in the Wonderful name of Jesus Christ our soon coming King. You were on the Christian channel and talking about the end times. i really enjoyed the message. Genuine men of God will not be highly esteemed of men in this generation but i sincerly belive that the heavely host rejoice when we obey God rather than man. Those of us that have the word of God must tell it not diminishing a word. Your reward will be great in heaven. Dont be discourage tell the Truth. Let Judgement run down as water and righteousness as a mighty stream. To God Truly is the GLORY.
 


Date: 20 Sep 2010
Time: 08:44:07

Your Comments:

Thank you for this!
I am an Apostolic/Pentecostal amillenialist historicist! I just simply accept what Dr Billy Grahm says in his book on 'The Holy Spirit'.
I do thank God for him but he has gone way off beam when he believes that moslems and jews have as much right to heaven as those specifically purchased by God through the Blood of the Lamb!
Futurism has penetrated major PROTESTANT denominations throughout Britain and it has paved the way of a Papal resurgence!
As I understand Futurism is the brainchild of the Jesuits, designed to throw off accusing fingers pointed at the vatican!
How can 144000 jewish converts evangelise the world after a so-called rapture when the Holy Ghost is removed from off the face of the Earth?
Something is wrong, because the Son of Man was wickedly treated and killed by His own people!
And He was FULL of the Holy Ghost!
My own fellowship leans towards futurism and most of them are of the opinion that the Lord will catch those who spurn the Good News today, when He returns to SET UP His Kingdom. My Jesus, is already KING! He cannot be a KING without a Kingdom! His Kingdom has already come! His Church ought to express the truth of that!
No wonder He spues us out of His mouth! We are not even lukewarm! and that is largely because of false teaching!...Brian
Brian


Date: 09 Oct 2010
Time: 21:18:42

Your Comments:

DEAR BRO.BAXTER; I AM A PASTOR BLESSED BY OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST,WHO WAS SEEKING KNOWLEDGE FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT FROM MANKIND FOR MANKIND CAN HAVE THEIR OWN OPINION OF BIBLE KNOWLEDGE AND MAKE MANY MISTAKES IF THEY ARE NOT GUIDED UNDER THE KNOWLEDGE WHICH IS GIVEN FROM UP ABOVE.I TOO GREW UP TEACHING AND PREACHING A PRE -RAPTURE TILL OUR LORD REVEALED THE BOOK OF REVELATION TO ME AND STARTED TO UNDERSTAND IT AND REALIZED MANY THINGS THAT I THOUGHT I KNEW AND HAD BEEN TAUGHT WERE DIFFERENT IN THE BIBLE.SO,I WENT INTO PRAYER AND ASKED MY LORD TO CONFIRM THESE THINGS THAT HE HAD REVEALED TO ME THERE HAD TO BE SOME OTHER PEOPLE HE HAD REVEALED THESE THINGS TOO WHO WOULD BE THE ONE WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT WOULD USE AND 2 WEEKS LATER I HEARD YOUR RADIO PROGRAM AND EXPLAINED EXACTLY WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEALED TO ME.SO,I KNOW THAT THE THINGS YOU ARE TEACHING COMES FROM UP ABOVE.I HAVE STARTED TO TEACH FOR THE PAST 12 YRS IN MY CHURCH REVELATION AND I HAVE HEARD YOUR PROGRAM THE PAST 8 YRS.I SHARE THIS TESTIMONY WITH YOU TO LET YOU AND OTHERS KNOW THAT WHAT YOU ARE TEACHING IS FROM OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.SO,KEEP STRONG IN OUR FAITH AND TEACH WHAT THE SPIRIT HAS REVEALED TO YOU.KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.PEACE AND BLESSINGS TO YOU MY BROTHER./ANONYMOUS,A BROTHER IN CHRIST.


Date: 18 Oct 2010
Time: 23:05:14

Your Comments:

I do not understand why you have such disregard for the Catholic church. Do you not realize that Jesus did establish a church through his apostles and that they established his sacred teachings and traditions referred to explicitly in the bible? The reason we have so much misunderstanding and distortion with bible believers today is because they have been misled and misinformed by supposed bible teachers with absolutely no credentials for teaching God's Word. Before you tell people that the Catholic Church and the Pope are the antichrist, why don't you look into what the Roman Catholic Church teaches about our Lord? They have spent the last 2,000 years discerning God's Holy Word. I have only spent a few months learning about what it does teach and I am discovering truths that for the first time make sense and put to rest what Martin Luther and others taught. Our biggest problem in the Protestant world today is that there is no authority to state emphatically what God's Word teaches. It is for this reason that church after church continues to split off and that results in more confusion about the truth of God's Word. I am frankly sick of the bickering and distortions about what God wants us to do. At least by my listening to Catholic theology I am beginning to accept what our Lord expects of us and I am happy to accept it--like a little child. I love going to Mass.


Date: 02 Feb 2013
Time: 00:35:57

Your Comments:

Pastor Baxter, you are rationally and Scripturally right on target regarding the futurist prophecies which historicists misunderstand and/or overlook. Most notable was your clarification that a Pope will be the False Prophet (earth beast of Rev. 13) and NOT the Antichrist (sea beast or Rev. 13). I believe you suspect President Obama may be the Antichrist. The Vatican/Pope was delighted that the UN voted in favor of a Palestinian State just last Nov. 29, 2012. From previous relations/agreement with the PA, it seems the Vatican may be given jurisdiction of the Temple Mount. Not coincidentally, the Temple Mount Faithful just last Feb. 2012 wrote a strong letter to the Vatican requesting that they return the Second Temple articles carried away by the Romans in 70 A.D. I will be watching your prophecy programs looking out for you reporting on these events...God Bless your ministry (I am Scripturally convinced of Pre-Wrath Rapture, however)...


Date: 20 Nov 2012
Time: 05:26:07

Your Comments:

Sounds like the author of this article is a JN Derby Dis pensationalist. I have three questions for him

1. How are people saved during the tribulation.

2. Is there a temple during this time

3. Who are the two witnesses.
 


Date: 18 Oct 2010
Time: 23:05:14

Your Comments:

I do not understand why you have such disregard for the Catholic church. Do you not realize that Jesus did establish a church through his apostles and that they established his sacred teachings and traditions referred to explicitly in the bible? The reason we have so much misunderstanding and distortion with bible believers today is because they have been misled and misinformed by supposed bible teachers with absolutely no credentials for teaching God's Word. Before you tell people that the Catholic Church and the Pope are the antichrist, why don't you look into what the Roman Catholic Church teaches about our Lord? They have spent the last 2,000 years discerning God's Holy Word. I have only spent a few months learning about what it does teach and I am discovering truths that for the first time make sense and put to rest what Martin Luther and others taught. Our biggest problem in the Protestant world today is that there is no authority to state emphatically what God's Word teaches. It is for this reason that church after church continues to split off and that results in more confusion about the truth of God's Word. I am frankly sick of the bickering and distortions about what God wants us to do. At least by my listening to Catholic theology I am beginning to accept what our Lord expects of us and I am happy to accept it--like a little child. I love going to Mass.
 


Date: 09 Oct 2010
Time: 21:18:42

Your Comments:

DEAR BRO.BAXTER; I AM A PASTOR BLESSED BY OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST,WHO WAS SEEKING KNOWLEDGE FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT FROM MANKIND FOR MANKIND CAN HAVE THEIR OWN OPINION OF BIBLE KNOWLEDGE AND MAKE MANY MISTAKES IF THEY ARE NOT GUIDED UNDER THE KNOWLEDGE WHICH IS GIVEN FROM UP ABOVE.I TOO GREW UP TEACHING AND PREACHING A PRE -RAPTURE TILL OUR LORD REVEALED THE BOOK OF REVELATION TO ME AND STARTED TO UNDERSTAND IT AND REALIZED MANY THINGS THAT I THOUGHT I KNEW AND HAD BEEN TAUGHT WERE DIFFERENT IN THE BIBLE.SO,I WENT INTO PRAYER AND ASKED MY LORD TO CONFIRM THESE THINGS THAT HE HAD REVEALED TO ME THERE HAD TO BE SOME OTHER PEOPLE HE HAD REVEALED THESE THINGS TOO WHO WOULD BE THE ONE WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT WOULD USE AND 2 WEEKS LATER I HEARD YOUR RADIO PROGRAM AND EXPLAINED EXACTLY WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEALED TO ME.SO,I KNOW THAT THE THINGS YOU ARE TEACHING COMES FROM UP ABOVE.I HAVE STARTED TO TEACH FOR THE PAST 12 YRS IN MY CHURCH REVELATION AND I HAVE HEARD YOUR PROGRAM THE PAST 8 YRS.I SHARE THIS TESTIMONY WITH YOU TO LET YOU AND OTHERS KNOW THAT WHAT YOU ARE TEACHING IS FROM OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.SO,KEEP STRONG IN OUR FAITH AND TEACH WHAT THE SPIRIT HAS REVEALED TO YOU.KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.PEACE AND BLESSINGS TO YOU MY BROTHER./ANONYMOUS,A BROTHER IN CHRIST.
 

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