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"Full Preterism is an empty doctrine, which offers no hope of a better life and a better future. It tears away at God's promise to the world of everlasting peace and tranquility that will be accomplished at Jesus' Second Coming. If Jesus came in 70 AD as the Full Preterists claim, He didn't do a very good job establishing world peace"

 

Refuting Full Preterism

By Louis Ruggeiro
King Messiah Project 2004
http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/fp_main.html

"when Jesus said that "this generation" would not pass, He was referring to the future generation that would be gathered to witness His Second Coming after the church age is completed. "

Full Preterists believe that all Scriptures were fulfilled in 70 AD. For many Christians throughout the world, this position is both heretical, and an insult to one's intelligence. It begs the question, "Is the universe turning on its end?"

Like any other cult such as the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, Full Preterists feed on those who are unlearned and untaught. Indoctrination can be a terrible thing, and when one becomes indoctrinated into the precept of men, escaping its bondage can become unbearably difficult. That's why it's important for all of us to read our Bibles as much as we can, not only so we can know the truth, but so we can defend ourselves against the false teachers in today's world. We should all remember that part of proclaiming the truth is exposing the lie.

Cults base most of their theology on the isolation of various passages in the Scriptures, and Preterists are no exception. Matthew 16:28 and Matthew 24:34 are the favorite verses that Full Preterists use to promote their false theology. In Matthew 16:28, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Regarding this verse, Preterists boldly take the position that Jesus was emphasizing that some of them would still be alive and witness His Second Coming. However, this is not what Jesus was saying! In this verse, Jesus was referring to His transfiguration, which would take place six days later (Matthew 17:1-5). On that day, He took Peter, James and John. It was then that they beheld His glory and His majesty, when His face shone like the sun. Peter, who was there, indicates in 2Peter 1:16-18 that, at this holy mount, they witnessed the "power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" as follows:

"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. (17) For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, WHEN WE WERE WITH HIM IN THE HOLY MOUNT."

When you demonstrate this clear connection to the Full Preterist, they will argue with you. Well, can you blame them? 2Peter 1:16-18 refutes one of their strongest arguments. When they begin to argue, just turn and walk away. Because they are not arguing with you, they are attempting to refute the Scriptures. Tell them to take it up with Peter on Judgment Day. Oh, that's right! They believe that Judgment Day has already taken place, in 70 AD. So, I guess they have anything to worry about, do they?

Another verse that Full Preterists love to use to confuse the public is Matthew 24:34. In this verse, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

By citing Matthew 24:34, the Full Preterists argue that Jesus was speaking to the generation that would witness ALL things being fulfilled.

First of all, we always need to remember that, when studying all of the Scriptures, we need to understand them in their proper context. With respect to Matthew 24:34, this is certainly no exception. We need to realize that, in Matthew 24:4-51, Jesus was responding to a question that His disciples asked Him in verse 3, which was: "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Let me go on the record by saying that nothing that Jesus described in Matthew 24:4-33 has yet to take place in our history. But it will, in the future! And, how do we know that? Let's go to Matthew 24:29-31 and find out. This is what Jesus said:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, AND THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER."

Regarding this passage, verse 31 provides one of the keys when responding to the Full Preterist argument. It refers to a gathering together of His elect, which did not take place in 70 AD. Actually, in 70 AD, the Roman Empire destroyed Israel's temple, killing over a million Jews in the process, and scattering those that remained. This was the fulfillment of Luke 21:24, when Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple as well as the scattering of Israel when He said, "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

In 70 AD, which was the fulfillment of Luke 21:24, Israel was led away captive into all nations. In retrospect, according to Matthew 24:29-31, a gathering of the elect is prophesied. Logically speaking, a 'scattering' and a 'gathering' cannot take place at the same time.

So, let us reason together. Luke 21:24 reveals that after the scattering of Israel, a period of "the fullness of the Gentiles" would take place. This is called the church age and, when Jesus is finished building His church, Luke 21:24 as well as Romans 11:25 advise that the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. After coming to this realization, it becomes quite clear that, when Jesus said that "this generation" would not pass in Matthew 24:34, He was referring to the future generation that would be gathered to witness His Second Coming after the church age is completed. Taking Luke 21:24 into consideration, this would occur after the fullness of the Gentiles. As Romans 11:26 states, after the fullness of the Gentiles (v. 25), "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."

Since Matthew 16:28 and Matthew 24:34 have been briefly addressed, it's time to review one of my exchanges that took place on April 4, 2004 with Don Preston, one of the most highly renowned Full Preterists in the world. This was done on John Anderson's Voice of Reason radio program. The topic was "The Day of the LORD, past or future?"

Before I get into a critique of Don's position, let me just say that I found both he and John Anderson to be perfect gentlemen, and very respectful. They were both cordial and polite throughout the one-hour discussion. John Anderson was the moderator, and is a Full Preterist himself. Though this was the case, he demonstrated no signs of prejudice toward Don's position and was extremely fair. He gave both Don and I equal time. I opened with a one-minute opening argument, then Don responded. Then we paused for a commercial break. Another commercial followed two more 3-minute exchanges. After a few more 3-minute exchanges and another commercial break, the full hour closed with both Don and I providing our one-minute closing arguments.

I must admit that, for me, it became frustrating. Because of the small amount of time that was allotted for both sides, pinning Don down on the issues was difficult. I did the best I could with the limited time that was available, but three-minute exchanges were simply not enough. Keeping this in mind, I will boldly claim that, if our encounter were done in a formal debate atmosphere, Don Preston's fallacious Full Preterist position would be placed in a spiritual wood-chipper and exposed as both deceptive and misleading to the public. Regarding Don, I found it amazing how he was able to dodge so many bullets at one time. He must be in great shape; if he were wearing a sweat suit, he would have lost 20 pounds.

First of all, refuting Full Preterism is easy. All one needs to do is demonstrate that some Scriptures were not fulfilled by the year 70 AD, and it's all over for those who adhere to the Full Preterist view. Regarding the "Day of the LORD," I began to challenge Don with a tiny little Book in the Bible, the Book of Obadiah. Obadiah 1:15-20 states:

(15) For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

(16) For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

(17) But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

(18) And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

(19) And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead.

(20) And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.

I must admit that, regarding Obadiah 1:15-20, I had the upper hand against Don because he's already on the record when he responded to Christian apologist Wayne Jackson. So, I already knew his next move. Hey, what can I tell you? It's called "giving your opponent some bait, having him swallow both the bait and the hook, and reeling him in." In his article, Jackson claimed that the Obadiah passage was a prophecy of Judgment Day against the nations of the earth, a future event! Naturally, Don had to disagree, and by doing so, he played right into my hands.

In his response to Jackson, Preston indicated that Obadiah 1:15-20 was fulfilled in 583 BC, when Babylon conquered Edom.

Don, give me a break! Are you reading a different Bible than I'm reading? First of all, Obadiah 1:15-20 foretells that three things would take place that has not yet taken place in our history. Unless of course, you're reading the history of the planet Mars! According to Obadiah 1:15-20, the three things that would take place are as follows:

1.       Obadiah 1:17 indicates that there would be deliverance for the house of Jacob, and that they would possess all the possessions of the heathen nations.

2.       Obadiah 1:18 advises that the house of Jacob would literally consume the entire house of Esau, who are the Edomites. In fact, the verse clearly states that "there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau."

3.       And finally, Obadiah 1:20 reveals that the children of Israel would possess "that of the Canaanites." According to Genesis 17:8 and Psalm 105:7-11,"that of the Canaanites" is the Promised Land.

In my humble opinion, my position was immensely strong against Don on these three issues because Don was already on the record indicating that the Obadiah passage was fulfilled in 583 BC. In actuality, in 586 BC, only three years earlier, Israel's 70-year captivity into Babylon began as was previously foretold by the prophet Jeremiah in Jeremiah 25:11-12 and Jeremiah 29:10.

So, my position seemed strong. After all, how could there be deliverance for the house of Jacob in 583 BC as prophesied in Obadiah 1:17 when Israel was in the beginning of their seventy-year captivity in Babylon? Also, regarding Obadiah 1:17, how could the house of Jacob possess the possessions of the heathen nations in 583 BC when they were in captivity in Babylon and it was their possessions that were being possessed? Finally, Obadiah 1:18 foretells that the house of Jacob would utterly destroy the Edomites, to a point that there would be none remaining of the house of Esau. And, according to Don, it was Babylon who conquered Edom in 583 BC, not the house of Jacob. I had Don Preston on the defensive, and he knew it!

Regarding the Edomites, I attempted to clear up Don's confusion on the issues and tried to enlighten him that, over 400 years after 583 BC, the Macabbees were at war with the Edomites. In fact, Herod of the New Testament was an Edomite. Even Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat proclaims himself as an Edomite, a descendent of the house of Esau. So naturally, there are Edomites left to this very day. So, how could Obadiah 1:18 possibly be fulfilled?

So, what did Don do? Actually, he cited Malachi 1:2-4 and used it as his proof-text that the house of Esau had been completely obliterated and wiped off the face of the earth. Don, do you think people aren't going to check out your references? For the record, this is what Malachi 1:2-4 says:

(2) I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

(3) And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

(4) Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, THEY SHALL BUILD, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

The Book of Malachi was written in approximately 430 BC. And during that time, the LORD vows to Edom in Malachi 1:4 that "THEY SHALL BUILD," clearly indicating that there would be a remnant of the house of Esau after 430 BC. Taking into consideration that the Macabbees fought against the Edomites three hundred years after the Book of Malachi was written, Herod was an Edomite, and Arafat is an Edomite, it's clear that Obadiah 1:18 has not yet been fulfilled because there are some that remain of the house of Esau. This sets the stage for the house of Esau's ultimate destruction at the hands of the house of Jacob…in the future! Don, thanks for making my day!

During the last twenty minutes of our exchange, I moved to Isaiah chapter 13 which is a prophecy against Babylon on the Day of the LORD (see verses 1, 6 and 9). As most of you know, Babylon is modern-day Iraq. I demonstrated to Don that this chapter represents a dual prophecy against Babylon, an immediate prophecy as well as a prophecy of Final Judgment. Isaiah 13:17 foretells that the Medes would come against Babylon, and they did, in 539 BC, approximately 190 years after Isaiah wrote this chapter. In that year, the Persians and the Medes conquered the Babylonian Empire when they came directly from the east. Thus, the Medeo-Persian Empire was established and the Babylonian Empire fell. Then, I took Don to the Final Judgment against Babylon, Isaiah 13:19-20, which states:

(19) And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

(20) It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

The key that Isaiah chapter 13 is a dual prophecy lies in Isaiah 13:20, which reveals that Babylon will ultimately be destroyed to a point of being uninhabitable. Naturally, this never took place in 539 BC. In fact, Arabians have been pitching tents in Babylon for the past 2700 years. I used Isaiah 13:17, 19-20 to demonstrate to Don that there exists an obvious gap between these two prophecies. I also demonstrated that, according to Jeremiah 50:39-41, Babylon would be left uninhabitable by people that "shall come from the north." I reminded him that, according to a map of the Middle East, the Medes came directly from the east. Regarding Babylon, Jeremiah 50:39-41 states:

(39) Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation.

(40) As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.

(41) Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

Jeremiah 50:3, 9 also reveals that nations from the north will make Babylon a desolate wilderness. But remember, the Medes came from the east in 539 BC, not from the north.

After sharing this information with Don Preston, it was time for closing arguments. Time became the greatest ally of my opponent, because we were out of it. To the intelligent person seeking the truth, the results of our one-hour exchange is as follows:

Since Full Preterism adheres to the position that all Scriptures were fulfilled on or before 70 AD, it must be considered baseless, invalid and without merit. We need to remember that it is not necessary to defeat the Preterist on every issue, just one single issue. Regarding the Day of the Lord in Obadiah 1:15-20 and Isaiah chapter 13, Don Preston and the Preterists who follow him embrace a false position because of the following reasons:

1.       Obadiah 1:17 refers to deliverance for the house of Jacob. This did not only fail to take place in 583 BC, but has not taken place up to and including the year 70 AD. Between these two time periods, the house of Jacob was under the yoke of the Babylonian Empire, the Medeo-Persian Empire, the Greek Empire, and the Roman Empire. Therefore, no deliverence has taken place. But it will…in the future!

2.       Obadiah 1:17 refers to the house of Jacob possessing the possessions of all the heathen. This also did not only fail to take place in 583 BC, but did not take place up to and including the year 70 AD, for the same reasons indicated above.

3.       Obadiah 1:18 reveals that the house of Jacob would completely destroy the house of Esau, the Edomites. Don Preston's claim that this occurred in 583 BC is unsubstantiated by his own admission because, according to him, it was the Babylonians who conquered Edom at that time, not the house of Jacob. Therefore, it is only logical to assume that this will be fulfilled on a future date when the house of Jacob will utterly destroy and consume the remnant of the house of Esau (Malachi 1:2-4). And, according to Isaiah 34:5-10, it will be over the controversy of Zion (see Isaiah 34:8).

4.       Obadiah 1:20 reveals that the children of Israel will possess that of the Canaanities. According to Genesis 17:1-10, specifically verse 8, and Psalm 105:7-11, specifically verses 10 & 11, this is the Promised Land. This is God's Everlasting Covenant between Himself and the descendents of Jacob. This has not yet taken place, but it will…in the future!

5.       Finally, Isaiah 13:19-20 foretells of Babylon's Final Judgment when it will be rendered desolate and uninhabitable. According to Jeremiah 50:3, 9, 39-41, this will be accomplished by nations from the north. Remember, the Medes came directly from the east to conquer Babylon in 539 BC. This was the fulfillment of Isaiah 13:17. Since Arabians have been pitching tents in Babylon for the past 2700 years, Isaiah 13:19-20 and Jeremiah 50:3, 9, 39-41 have not yet been fulfilled. But it will…in the future!

Full Preterism is an empty doctrine, which offers no hope of a better life and a better future. It tears away at God's promise to the world of everlasting peace and tranquility that will be accomplished at Jesus' Second Coming. If Jesus came in 70 AD as the Full Preterists claim, He didn't do a very good job establishing world peace where nation would not lift up sword against nation (Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 11:9-10, Ezekiel 37:24-26 and Micah 4:3).

It is my hope that this article will enlighten those that are considering this heretical doctrine. As of this moment, I have two other debates with Don Preston. Let's see what happens. More to follow!

 

Sincerely and In Christ,
The King Messiah Project

What do YOU think ?

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Date:
21 Apr 2004
Time:
16:09:08

Comments

Just wanted to say thanks to Lou for allowing me to post this article from his website (kingmessiahproject.com). Romans held special respect for those who opposed in an honorable way - and so do I appreciate his determination. - Todd


Date:
21 Apr 2004
Time:
19:17:55

Comments

Louis needs to get a clue! He has no biblical basis for accusing preterists of being cultists. Repent Louis, and shame on you for your slander. Signed, Bryan (a57chevypreterist@yahoo.com)


Date:
21 Apr 2004
Time:
19:43:54

Comments

What or Who begs the question, "Is the universe turning on it's head?"....That was his first question wasn't it?......No one I know is begging the question. Most futurists do on a daily basis though. You know this is the kind of thing that brought people to the burning stakes and other terrible atrocities against most ordinary yet observant and straight forward thinkers. Furtism and the rapture/prosperity/end times/pre/mid post/amill and all the other hysteria is about 1/2 a step away from being supestitious and mentaly retarding. "It begs the question".....sounds so profound...and yet nothing but air. Superstition and encantations by the modern day enchanters, oh, I meant Futurists. Have a nice day in your topsy turvy world of religious bondage. KC


Date:
22 Apr 2004
Time:
05:27:44

Comments

Having recently listend to Lou "debate" Don Preston on The Voice of Reason, it is my impression he simply has not done his homework on preterism. In "The Second Coming: Mission Accomplished," the Kloskes quote Gordon Fee's "New Testament Exegesis: A Handbook for Students and Pastors." Fee writes, "It is axiomatic that before you level criticism you should be able to to state an author's position in terms that he or she would find acceptable." To his shame, Brother Lou hasn't done that. When it comes to preterism, he is a novice. Based on his conduct during the debate, he seems to be a sincere gentleman, but he is woefully ignorant in regard to this subject. His Obadiah argument is grasping at straws, at best. Jim Wade


Date:
22 Apr 2004
Time:
05:43:29

Comments

I think that the Septuagint of Malachi 1:4 is pretty instructive as an alternative understanding (using Brenton's translation): "Because one will say, Idumea has been overthrown, but let us return and rebuild the desolate places; thus says the Lord Almighty, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall be called 'The borders of wickedness,' and, 'The people against whom the Lord has set himself forever.'" (Mal.1:4 LXX) It seems clear that after the house of Esau was destroyed, others who were _not_ descendants of Esau have tried to come in and inhabit the land. They may have been labeled as Edomites because they came and inhabited the land of Edom, but that does not make them members of the "house of Esau" any more than a Russian Jew occupying some land in modern day Israel makes them a member of the "house of Judah." The author of the article is confusing two unrelated groups of people. This isn't even close to being an irrefutable argument against Full Preterism.


Date:
23 Apr 2004
Time:
08:18:34

Comments

I thought about stopping at the first sentence, "Full Preterists believe that all Scriptures were fulfilled in 70 AD." No, that's not what full preterists believe. And to paint full preterism with this brush displays either (a) a lack of understanding of what full preterists actually believe or (b) a desire to steer people away from preterism with scare tactics and half-truths. Given the tone of the rest of the article, I tend to believe the latter. If the errors of full preterism are so obvious, why must those who oppose it resort to such tactics? Can't you just put forth the clear and concise errors of full preterism without injecting commentary about how evil and scary it is?


Date:
23 Apr 2004
Time:
10:10:07

Comments

Thank you so much for being a light in this muddled world!I like what you said about someones system only needing one thing to be disprooved and the Whole thing falls.You have so succesfully shown that Peterism is now shown to be on par with the Mormons. It is so comforting to know that someone out there like you Mr. Ruggerio is leading the way with a PERFECT Escatology! Thanks for not being a Mormon Mr. R. I wish everyone out there would use your perfect Escatology. I just dont understand why everyone wouldnt want to have a perfect Escatology like yours! It must be a sign of the End Times, that everyone will not listen to your perfect Escatology. Thanks for not allowing your system to have one single fault! The last thing we need is another Mormon Church. The Baptist, Presbeterians, Catholics, Episcipols, Lutherans, AAMERPHCoLd7th(African American Methodist Episcipol Reformed Pentecostal Holiness Church of Latter Day 7th Adventist, and Unitarians, have assembled enough of these Mormon Churches on every corner in America, and its about time someone like you Mr.Ruggerio eposed them for what they are, and leads us out of the mire of funny underwear. Thank you for eliminating the Spiritual "skid-marks"(no pun intended) in all the Mormon Churches. I never realized how much influence Joe Smith had had on the Church. Now we can finnaly get the "salt of the Earth" out of Salt Lake! Lead on Sir! Sovereignchaser


Date:
23 Apr 2004
Time:
10:19:16

Comments

Amen---I dont see Wolves laying with Sheep, and Children playing with the asp, Where is the Peace on earth? A Great Message GunterCreek 4/23/2004


Date:
24 Apr 2004
Time:
07:52:56

Comments

The wolves and the lambs lying down together is a reference to the Jew and Gentile now being one in Chirst. If you understood the Hebraic mindset, you would understand that this was not speaking of literal animals lying down with one another. Many times in the Old Testament the Jews are refered to as lambs (clean). The gentiles were refered to as wolves, snakes, (unclean). It is a beautiful picture if you understand that Christ made them lie together in Him. Don't be so carnally minded that you miss the meaning. Many of the first century Jews missed messiah because their expectation did not math God's. --Batman


Date:
26 Apr 2004
Time:
09:24:15

Comments

Another example of the faiuilure of both preterists and futurists to understand that God's plan for the creation of a perfect world DID NOT involve the improvement of the old, temporary, hopelessly fallen world but rather the creation of the new and spiritual and eternal world of Rev. 21 and 22 -- the spiritual kingdom of God that came on earth as in heaven (Mt. 6:10) at the end of the true first century. But that fact is spiritual and must be spiritually discerned.


Date:
26 Apr 2004
Time:
13:37:40

Comments

I want to thank whoever posted this article to the Archive (Todd D. probably) for starting it off with this quote: "when Jesus said that 'this generation' would not pass, He was referring to the future generation that would be gathered to witness His Second Coming after the church age is completed." On to the next article... JEGjr


Date:
26 Apr 2004
Time:
16:13:19

Comments

Dispensationalists believe -- no kidding, they really do -- that this present sinful, wicked and corrupt world will be changed into a glorious, righteous, peaceful and prosperous world when Christ himself uses a literal rod of iron to enforce the law of Moses on the whole world. That, of course, is the same law, the same old yoke of bondage, that long ago proved to be an utter and complete failure (Heb. 7:18,19). But human beings cannot be perfected, made righteous, by laws or by teaching or by force -- they must be born again. If Ruggiero relied on that foundational fact he might be able to move on to discover the spiritual truths explained in the New Testament.


Date:
27 Apr 2004
Time:
14:02:28

Comments

This guy has no clue what the gospel is nor of who Jesus is. Lou Ruggerio is a heretic.


Date:
28 Apr 2004
Time:
16:06:17

Comments

My head is spinning. i have tried to understand this "the generation that sees those events" was the generation that Jesus was speaking of. How could one ever know that they were in fact that generation. the futurists can always claim well all the events must not have taken place which means that the only way to know with any certainty is with hindsight after the events had already taken place which means Jesus answer to the question was basically meaningless to them. why would the Lord mock them with a baffling enigma??? ( a little Rusellism) the purpose of the answer was so that the disciples could be watchful and not be like the foolish virgins. certainly you cannot suggest that modern day Christians are watching with fervor like the Apostles generation was. what a mockery this man makes of the scriptures. Mr. Ruggeiro get yourself a copy of JSR's "The Parousia" and study it. Chris King


Date:
28 Apr 2004
Time:
17:10:50

Comments

to chris king: good points. Even the Thessalonians in 1thess 5:4 were not in darkness and the day would NOT over take them as a thief. WHY? Because they would be dead over 2000 years?????? NO! Because it would happen in their lifetime and they knew the signs of its coming.


Date:
29 Apr 2004
Time:
10:22:53

Comments

To Chris King and the writer of 28 Apr 2004 at 17:10:50: This is, of course, why James was able to write as he did in James 5. JESUS: "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door" (Matthew 24:32,33). JAMES: "Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door" (James 5:7-9). James saw the signs and was therefore able to say by inspiration that Jesus was near and at the door, just as the Lord Himself had declared. Kenneth Perkins


Date:
03 May 2004
Time:
17:54:54

Comments

LOU RUGGERIO IS A HERETIC AND HATES THE GOSPEL OF FREE AND SOVEREIGN GRACE ...http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/8890/grace/paulsgospel.html


Date:
06 May 2004
Time:
09:17:20

Comments

To all who have posted objections to my article: I've noticed that none of you have been able to address the five points I posted at the end of my article which completely destroy the doctrine of Full Preterism. Just remember my debate with Don Preston on the Day of the LORD: Obadiah 1:15-20 and Isaiah 13:19-20 have yet to be fulfilled. Unless of course, you can show me when. Sincerely. Louis Ruggiero - King Messiah Project


Date:
10 May 2004
Time:
13:47:05

Comments

Preston threw you a curve which you could not hit so you kept rambling the same old thing that was refuted already by him.


Date:
10 May 2004
Time:
17:39:48

Comments

Question # 1: When did Jesus say the Kingdom of God would come? Let Jesus answer that for himself: ............................................... “And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1”.... “ But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:27.... ................................................. Question # 2: When did Jesus say we would know the Kingdom of God is nigh at hand? Again let us let Jesus tell us: ................ Luke 21: 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. .............................................. Question # 3: What were the “these things” that Jesus said would be a sign that the Kingdom of God was near? .......................... Luke 21: 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. 29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. ............................................ Question # 4 Who, according to did Jesus, was to receive the Kingdom of God?........... Luke 12:31-32 But rather seek ye first the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you . Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give YOU the kingdom. ......................................... Question # 5 How was the kingdom of God to come? ......... Luke 17:21 “And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said “Thekingdom of God comes NOT WITH OBSERVATION.” ............................................. Conclusion: Unless there are two Kingdoms of God coming twice the kingdom of God was to come in the lifetime of them in that day. It was to be originally received by that little flock and it was to follow the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds with power and great glory. It was also to come NOT WITH OBSERVATION. Therefore , the coming of Christ along with the kingdom of God must have been in the lifetime of them living then and without observation. ..................... CASE CLOSED


Date:
24 Jun 2004
Time:
20:45:28

Comments

"Like any other cult such as the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, Full Preterists feed on those who are unlearned and untaught. Indoctrination can be a terrible thing, and when one becomes indoctrinated into the precept of men, escaping its bondage can become unbearably difficult." *** I am not unlearned or untaught.. For years I sat under dispensationalist teachers. John MacArthur being one. I've exhausted the writings of John Walvoord and others. These are the people that are brainwashing their followers. I trusted these men to teach me truth. Shame on YOU, Louis Ruggeiro for preying on ignorant Christians that are trusting you to teach them truth. I would contend that the precepts or men are the lies of dispensationalism. I've learned the principles of inductive Bible Study and never back down to the challenges of dispensationalism or the heretics that teach it. Mrs. Alyce Caughey, Gold Canyon, Arizona. alycatz@msn.com


Date:
11 Dec 2004
Time:
15:38:33

Comments

I think he's partly right. Preterists should stop using that verse that Peter spoke about. They don't need to use it and they would be smarter not to use it.


Date: 29 May 2006
Time: 15:28:39

Comments0:

Louis Ruggiero is not interested in the truth. I am not a full preterists, but a partial. However I have heard enough of his heretical teachings to know he is not interested in the truth. He misrepresents other lines of thought that he disagrees with. Especially calvinism. On his website he decieves his listeners into thinking that he triumphed over Dr.James White on their debate.(If you can call it that) The truth is Dr.White obliterated him! There were even times when Louis Ruggiero stumbled with his answers. For example, a caller named Sam from chicago called in on the program. He asked Louis Ruggiero if he could answer John 1:12-13 which states:

"He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

There was silence and dead air for a good 5-7 seconds. Louis Ruggeiro then stumbled through out his entire 1 minute answer. He never did answer that question. HMMMMMM? Louis Ruggeiro on his website mispresents James white and the position of calvinism. Mr.Ruggeiro, I fear for your soul. I would also like to make it known that I have challenged Louis Ruggeiro to debate me on any of the 5 points of calvinism over paltalk. I have been declined every single time. He says it's because calvinists "do not have any credability." Personally I believe it's because he cannot truly defend his position or even refute ours. Lou, the challenge is still open.

Oct31st1517
Mark Anthony Aponte


Date: 26 Sep 2006
Time: 23:07:38

Comments0:

I find it interesting that preterists took the time to call some names and generally badmouth this author and his futurist position, but no one took the time to address the mans arguments! Are they that troublesome for you guys or what???? Geesh.


Date: 16 Apr 2009
Time: 00:11:40

Your Comments:

I think that all views apposed to the truth will eventually be subdued but those of this generation invested in the old thoughtless ways are like those of Moses's generation that did not enter the promised land. Preterism obviously agrees with the word but they will always argue and never let the words mean what they say instead they will insert their own meaning and condemn and demean those who have moved on and understand the beautiful life that we have been granted by Gods beautiful work. They will continue to wait for something delivered, not knowing that physical life was and always will be temporal, the thing granted in the twinkling of an eye is not seen with the eye and not something to be observed but is a reward of life from the author of life. They are immature like the Jew's who crucified the savior because he would not swing their sword for world power, he brought something much more powerful, eternal life in the heavenly realms and peace in knowing while we are in this element. Daniel Parker


Date: 07 May 2009
Time: 14:21:16

Your Comments:

"Jesus said to her: Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God." Do you still believe that Jesus is God? Then read 1st Corinthians 15: 24-28. Still not convinced then read Revelation 3:14. What about Jesus' words "what I teach is not mine but belongs to the Father who sent me." Who was Jesus praying to? John 14:28 "The Father is greater than I am." Who is Proverbs 8:22-31 Speaking of? The Trinity teaching is a 4th century teaching check it out it is a matter of history. And by the way Mr. Ruggiero you can use any Bible in looking up these scriptures.




 

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