BOOKS: BIBLICAL STUDIES (1500BC-AD70) / EARLY CHRISTIAN PRETERISM (AD50-1000) / FREE ONLINE BOOKS (AD1000-2008)
A Backwards Look to Find the Truth
By Lowell Porter
The literal return of Jesus Christ and His armies on white horses to destroy the beast and false prophet and their armies (See Rev 19:20). This is after the rejoicing because of the judgement of the great whore of chapter 17 & 18. We will look back to see what peoples are involved in the treading of the winepress and the great supper.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
The bible says the beast was taken, not the whore. The time frame is the destruction of the beast and false prophet, not the whore of Rev 17 & 18, the mark of the beast was in effect before this time, and this is before the 1000 years of Rev 20.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
A look farther back in Rev 16:10-16 finds the beast and false prophet gathering the armies that will join the Beast confederation to a place called Armageddon where their armies were to be overcome by the Lamb.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Those marked are the ones who have shed the blood of the saints, that are being punished at this time, not the people of Israel.
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image. Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Rev 15:1-2 shows us that the mark of the beast is in force before the vials, we can see the time frame of these chapters is right before this gathering in the place called Armageddon, where the grapes of wrath are trodden without the city. Rev 14:20.
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Rev 14:14-20 These then are the grapes gathered the 1600 furlongs and cast into the winepress of wrath, trodden without the city.
Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, Rev 10:6 And swore by him that liveth forever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Now that we are dealing with the coming of the Lord in judgement against the whole world, not just Jerusalem, what kind of descriptive language would we expect to find when the bible describes His coming in judgement against the world except that used before, even in the Old Testament. So when do the events of chapter 4 through 6 and even on to Armageddon take place? According to the bible, is was after John's day.
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.
We have gone backwards in the book of Revelation to help find the truth that some are unable, or unwilling , to see by going forward. We have found that the whore judged is not Babylon or spiritual Sodom, but "Mystery Babylon" A city that sets on seven mountains, according to Rev 17:18. What city is guilty of the blood of saints in our time? Although the whore is destroyed by the beast and his ten kings, the beast and his army are destroyed at Armageddon, not the whore. The time frame for all the events appears to be at the end of the age we are living in. Although I am willing to be persuaded by the great effort by many people to fit this into the time frame of AD 70, I find that it just does not fit with history or what the bible says. We must go by the bible, everybody has a right to study scripture, but sooner or later we will find we need to get back to what the book says.
Hope this is helpful.
What do YOU think ?
Nope. Too bad, it looks like Lowell worked hard on it. Marcel
I read the article and thought it showed a lot of points that everyone should look at. I think that we have a lot of what mom, pop, grandpa or grandma said and we don't take the time to look at the real truth. What thus saith the Lord. I believe that if we will truely search and seek God is just in giving the answer. I would that everyone would seek Jesus.
Actually, the tricky thing about the book of Revelation is that you have to read it from front to back to understand it. The wilderness of Rev. 12 is the 40 years AD 30-70 that fulfilled the OT 40 years in the wilderness. The events preceding Rev. 12 deal with OT Israel, starting with the exodus from Egypt (first trumpet), and culminate in the judgment of that Christ-rejecting nation. The events following Rev. 12, i.e., occurring after AD 70, deal with the first-century world and culminate in the judgment of that Christ-rejecting world. Preterists' misunderstanding of certain "time statements" prevents them from understanding the NT. As a result, they hold the seriously mistaken belief that OT Israel and the world were judged simultaneously in AD 70.
Dear Mr. Porter I have been trying to contact you. I read your article and enjoyed many aspects of it. I have also received a letter from a friend who suggests the differences in the city and the whore. I would very much like to discuss a couple points with you as it is something I have been working on for some 6 months. Would you mind taking a few moments? My phone number is 970 926 1721 and my E mail is firstname.lastname@example.org If you give me your phone number I would be happy to call you. Thank you very much and hope to hear from you. Yours sincerely, Walt
The Beast and the Locusts are of course fallen angels that were bound in the Abyss prior to Jesus's time...probably during the flood. Jude makes reference to these angels. They are released at the time of the end to serve God's purpose...destroy the whore(Heavenly city of God which has become corrupt)Babylon the Great. Since Satan is cast down to the earth at this time, Abaddon is given authority by him. Abaddon gathers kings(fallen angels in authority) to destroy the City of God. It has become the mother of all prostitutes...Jerusalem being one of her daughters. Once Abaddon and the Kings from the far north(angels aligned with Abaddon) are finished destroying Babylon the Great, Jesus comes and destroys those angels with the brightness of his coming and cast the Beast(Abaddon) and the false prophet into the lake of fire. One must understand that what happens in the heavenlies are mirrored in the physical. Hence, when the Roman armies were surrounding Jerusalem, then the Christians at the time knew that Babylon the Great was about to be destroyed by the Beast and his Angels. According to Revelation Babylon the Great will be found no more...that it would be destroyed in one hour. There are many other descriptions like this about this city. This of course can't be Jerusalem. Jerusalem was a daughter of this demonic city. Jerusalem suffered as her Mother suffured. Revelation 18 says: "Babylon the great city will be thrown down violently and never be found again. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters will never be heard in you again; no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again; the sound of a mill will never be heard in you again; 23 the light of a lamp will never shine in you again; and the voice of a groom and bride will never be heard in you again. All this will happen because your merchants were the nobility of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery, 24 and the blood of prophets and saints, and all those slaughtered on earth, was found in you. " If you read revelation understanding the characters involved, then it is pretty easy to make sense of it all.
My, what bizarre and fantastic ideas! The 7 trumpets of Revelation actually refer to 7 important aspects of the history of OT Israel (details upon request) and Abaddon or Apollyon, meaning Destroyer, is mentioned in Rev. 9:11 (5th trumpet, first woe) in connection with the Assyrian invaders who swarmed into the OT promised land like devouring locusts and removed the 10 northern tribes in 722 BC. The Assyrians tormented the nation but did not kill it. On the locusts' "heads were as it were crowns like gold" (Rev. 9:7), which relates to the prophet Nahum's words, in his prediction of the fall of Nineveh, the capital of the Assyrian empire: "Thy crowned are as the locusts" (Na. 3:17). The reference to "the king over them" named Destroyer relates to the prophet Hosea's words, in his prediction of the first of OT Israel's three woes, the fall of the northern kingdom: "Woe unto them! Destruction unto them!" (Hos. 7:13). The locusts "had hair as the hair of women" (Rev. 9:8) and the picture of the Assyrian archer on page 691 of the 1978 edition of the NIV Pictorial Bible clearly depicts the long, curled hair favored by those warriors. Nothing bizarre. Nothing fantastic. Simply history presented in the wonderful language of the book of Revelation.
In chapter 19 we have a description of the return of Jesus where the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 20 has Satan bound a thousand years and cast into the bottomless pit. Rev 20:10 shows that the events of chapter 20 are in order after chapter 19 because after the 1000 years are expired, Satan is then cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet ARE, they were already cast into the lake in chapter 19. This means that the 1000 years and the events of Rev 20 did not happen in AD 30 to AD 70, nor do they fit since AD 70. A look in the bible will reveal that when God gives years and days in scripture, it means years and days unless stated to represent otherwise. I can see how this is confusing to all of those that believe the coming of Jesus described here is really His coming to destroy Jerusalem and the nation and temple of Israel. The bible says this is the time for the destruction of the beast and false prophet, not Jerusalem or the whore city of Rev 17 & 18. This being so, the beast described here would not be Nero, Galba, Vespasian, Domitian, or any other ancient ruler of Rome. Nor can this beast be the nation of Rome, because this BEAST and FALSE PROPHET are immediately destroyed with the Lord’s coming. I believe this is why so many have tried for hundreds of years to fit these events into the past, and they find no indivual that will fit with all the actions attributed to this beast, or the time frame. I believe the bible shows that the beast power described in Rev 20, is the same beast power in Rev 19. It is also the same beast and powers described as cast into the winepress of God in chapter 19. Also the same beast powers of chapter 16:1-11, where there are references to the mark of the beast, and beast worshipers in the beast’s kingdom suffering the plagues and wrath of God because they had shed the blood of saints and prophets, is was not Jerusalem, or the whore city. Chapter 15 shows we are still dealing with the same beast and his mark. The 144,000 are spoken of in chapter 14, and also the chapter speaks of the beast and his mark, and involved him and his armies in the winepress of Armageddon. In Chapter 13 we have this beast described as Mr. 666, the beast spoken of that no man might buy or sell, save he that has the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. The beast that continues 42 months, (1260 days lunar). The two witnesses of chapter 11 prophecy 1260 days and are killed by “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit”. The rapid sealing of 144,000 of all the tribes of Israel is found in chapter 7, notice they are sealed all at one time period, not strung out through years and years. This indicates to us that these events are within the lifetime of these 144,000. I have a study that I believe shows that the events of Rev 4 through 22 are in chronological order. I believe it shows they are knit togther in such a way through the seals, trumpets, woes, and vials that it took the Holy Spirit to intertwine the text so that it must be understood to be in order. I gave the backward look in the hope that some might see what power is the one destroyed at the coming of Jesus in chapter 19 and 20. I believe the bible teaches of several “comings of the Lord in judgement”. Jesus did come in judgement against Jerusalem as He said, however I believe there are things spoken of in the bible that go well beyond AD 70. I don’t want to cause anyone to be confused or upset, I just can’t find any events in history where anyone jumped through all the hoops required to be the beast of Revelation. Lowell
To the author: I believe you'll agree that there have been two ages of the natural world -- the pre-flood age and the post-flood age. Since the basis for God's dealings with mankind has been first the natural and then the spiritual (1 Cor. 15:46), it's logical that the first age of the world would end, in natural terms, with a typifying natural judgment (the flood) and the second age of the world would end, in spiritual terms, with a fulfillment spiritual judgment (Christ's parousia). Both judgments came in the clouds. Both came on the last day of a 100-year-period. During the typifying final 100 pre-flood years (Noah aging from 500 to 600) Noah, a type of Christ, brought three typifying natural sons into the world and built the typifying ark. During the fufillment 100 years, Christ brought countless spiritual sons into the world and built the church (the true ark). The typifying 100 years that preceded the flood are described in Gen. 7:1 as "THIS GENERATION." The fulfillment 100 years that preceded Christ's parousia are described in Mt. 24:34 as "THIS GENERATION." The latter 100 years are the true first century (eliminating the four-year error in our calendar) -- the 100 years from the birth of Christ, God's true, spiritual King of the world, in autumn of 5 BC to the death of the emperor Domitian, Satan's false, usurping king of the world, in autumn of AD 96. Domitian was killed by the sword (Rev. 13:10) in the fifth hour of the morning on September 18, AD 96 -- the day and hour of Mt. 24:36. Master these facts, and related facts such as the real meaning of Rev. 21:1, and you'll be far ahead of the traditional preterist who erroneously believes Christ's parousia occurred in AD 70.
96 is still within the scope of traditional preterism, i think..
Email PreteristArchive.com's Sole Developer and Curator, Todd Dennis
(todd @ preteristarchive.com)
Opened in 1996