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10/1/14: HAPPY 18TH YEAR, PRETERISTARCHIVE.COM!
 
(17th Year: 988,513 Visitors; 18,387,778 Hits; 1.63 TB)


End Times Chart


Introduction and Key

WELCOME TO THE PRETERIST ARCHIVE OF REALIZED ESCHATOLOGY
Significance of AD30 - Calvary is judgment de jure; AD70 is only judgment de facto ("WPG")

Jirair Tashjian: The Second Coming "When writers and preachers make such a big fuss about the Second Coming and the end of the world, they are forgetting something much more important. They are in effect minimizing the First Coming. In a real sense the world ended some two thousand years ago in Jesus. Something decisive happened for humanity and for our relationship with God in the life, death and resurrection of Christ." [The destruction of the veil proves de jure fulfillment] // "For Christ has appeared, and in him the shadows have given way to the perfect and abiding reality."

Former Full Preterists: Recanting Full Preterism: Abauzit  Townley  Desprez - "(Full) Preterism has a long history of adherents who recanted. Here the works of three prominent men who embraced preterist or hyperpreterist views, but later recanted, are examined" (Abauzit, Townley, Desprez)

12/7/11:

12/6/11:

  • Sam Frost: New Heavens/New Earth "Even the Full Preterist must realize this because he/she too spiritualizes these passages. You don’t really think that we are going to live hundreds of years old do you? What is Isaiah expressing here? Eternal life? Yes. The Eternal State realized in a new heaven and a new earth, recreated to reflect and go way, way beyond the original Edenic setting before the sin that brought accursedness, death and sinners in the world (Romans 5.12-ff)."

  • The Destruction of Jerusalem and the End of the World Episode #0033: Andrew Connally discusses the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world. 0033 - The Destruction of Jerusalem and the End of the World

12/5/11:

  • Do you believe we're in the 'last days?' "Most definitely. In fact, we have been in the last days for the last 2,000 years."

12/1/11:

11/29/11:

11/24/11:

11/20/11:

  • Lawsuit: Man fired for not wearing "666" sticker - CBS News "But he grew nervous in early 2009 as the number of accident-free days crept into the 600s. When the day came on March 12, 2009, Hyatt sought a manager to discuss his request. He said he was told that his beliefs were "ridiculous" and that he should wear the sticker or serve a three-day suspension."

11/16/11:

Britain's Queen Elizabeth II attends a service marking the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible at Westminster Abbey, London, Wednesday, Nov. 16, 2011. "Ancient copies of the King James bible are carried in a procession to the alter during a service marking the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible at Westminster Abbey, London, Wednesday, Nov. 16, 2011. The first edition of the King James Bible was published in 1611."

11/15/11:

  • Video: Don Preston’s Deistic Perceptions "I decided to do an audio and video version of my article, The Machinery of the Full Preterist World. The points i made in this article have been avoided like the plague from Don Preston’s “Reformed” hyperpreterist supporters."
  • A Biblical and Historical Perspective on Earthquakes | American Vision For decades now, modern-day prophecy writers have been claiming that the increase and severity of earthquakes are sure indicators that we’re living in the “last days” and the “rapture” is near. It happened when an earthquake hit Haiti January 12, 2010.

11/13/11:

11/12/11:

  • Mike Loomis - Challenging Resurrection View of Total Fulfillment in AD70 "The Apostle Paul spoke of the resurrection as something that was past, present, and future from his perspective. And to deny certain aspects of it, past, present, or future is to deny even Christ's resurrection, resulting in the shipwrecking of some peoples faith. See 1 Corinthians 15, 1 Timothy 1:18-20 & 2 Timothy 2:14-18."

11/9/11: Daniel's 70 Weeks -- Rightly Dividing "The crucifixion and the destruction of the Temple did occur after the 69 weeks of years ended in 32 AD. Jesus was cut off, but the destruction of the Temple would come later just as Jesus foretold. Daniel 9:26 is fulfilled after the 69th week with the 70th week still future. This is the plain reading without doing any mental gymnastics or new math. Below is the passage diagrammed" (well done chart by Dispy Daniel Matson)

11/7/11: Preterist Questions and Difficulties - Puritan Board

11/4/11:

  • Essays towards a right interpretation of the last prophecy of our Lord concerning the destruction of Jerusalem 1841 - "Perhaps it is the misunderstanding of this word which has been one of the great causes of the misunderstanding of the prophecy; leading men to suppose, that all the things here spoken of must have been fulfilled in some sense or other at the desolation of Jerusalem; but as they plainly all the while saw that they had not been so"

  • Sam Frost: Refreshing Look at First Corinthians 15 "What Full Preterists do is take “timing” and define “nature” based on the assumption of an “all at once, all at one event, all at one time” definition of “fulfillment.” Once they have you hooked on that, they can make their arguments of “consistency.” Once they devalue the orthodox doctrine of resurrection (as a “myth”, a “fairy tale”, “ludicrous”), then you are free to “come up” with a new meaning: either “corporate view” or “get a new body when you die” view. Both of which have been condemned by the Church."

  • Orthodox Preterist: Victorious Eschatology by Eberle and Trench "Although Eberle and Trench make it clear they do NOT agree with hyper-preterism they still cite and recommend a few of their works, like John L. Bray's*, John R. Noe's*, and Kurt Simmons' works."

11/3/11:

11/2/11:

11/1/11:

10/31/11:

  • Preterism's Error: The Mystery of the Lost Generation "Whether this is to confound those who do not have the Ruach haQodesh (Holy Spirit) or for some other reason, I cannot say, only that this is a well-known characteristic of prophecy. Remember also that Scripture is full of chiasms, a poetic device to enable the ancients to memorise vast amounts of Scripture, some of it quite complex. Thus a sequence of concepts A-B-C-D-E is mirrored or repeated in reverse order, E-D-C-B-A, which can result in chronological events appearing to occur in reverse too. Some chiastic structures are quite complex, with chiasms within chiasms."

  • Book recommendations for somebody new to Preterism

10/26/11:

  • End Times Deceptions - The Last Coming of Jesus Christ Do today's churches believe what Paul says in Philippians 4:13 when he says "I can do ALL things through Christ which strengtheneth me"? Do they REALLY believe it? Do they truly believe this with all of their heart, soul and strength? Then...why don't they believe that we are going to WIN this battle? Why do they believe that Jesus has to come back to bail us out AGAIN? What about His "completed work on the cross"? What about His conquering death and sin? Have they truly grasped these things yet? Apparently not.

  • "One "glitch" I have found with some of the loosely organized fellowship/umbrella/apostolic movements of the day is where some are taking up the Dominionist and partial preterist views of those such as C Peter Wagner." http://charismaticcentral.com/forums/doctrine/15880-preterism-dominionism-winds-doctrines-blowing.html

10/23/11:

  • David E. Aune on Early Christian Biblical Interpretation "The language of promise and fulfillment in the NT must be given the meaning which the Biblical authors assigned to it, and not that of modern theories of prophecy which are too often read back into the first century. It is precisely because dispensational interpreters disregard the methods by which the NT authors interpreted the OT that they are able to insist on a purely literal fulfillment of many OT prophecies."

10/21/11: Patrick Stone's Idealist Preterism Chart

10/20/11:

  • Exposing the Error of Preterism "According to R.C. Sproul, Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry, “this generation” in that verse was in Jesus’ lifetime. So they say that since Jesus was speaking around A.D. 30, and since a Biblical generation is about 40 years in length, the fulfillment must have occurred before A.D. 70. R.C. Sproul is quite adamant about this interpretation and says that it is “so plain.” Gary DeMar agrees and has said that “an honest assessment of scripture can lead to no other conclusion.” Gentry, in his writings, has 7 points to support this view."

  • October 21, 2011: Harold Camping’s latest Apocalypse prediction

10/19/11:

  • Former Full Preterists: Sam Frost - Full Preterism Refuted (2011)"On Sovereign Grace Preterism, Christian Ortiz posted (an) article from his Pastor. James Metzger posted as response as well. The pastor’s response is actually pretty solid, laying out the basic differences. The major point at which scholars would disagree is concerning Jesus’ reference to “this generation”

10/17/11:

  • Five Ways Your Bible Translation Distorts the Original Meaning of the Text Dr. Joel Hoffman "In part because of the generally conservative nature of religion -- "out with the old, in with the new" is not a particularly welcome sentiment at most seminaries -- these and other familiar but outdated translations often stick with us and continue to influence Bible translators. (One especially grievous case is the well known but widely misunderstood phrase "God so loved the world" in John 3:16. The meaning of "so" here has changed.)"

10/11/11:

  • Book Notice: Revelation for Everyone (Tom Wright) Review of N.T. Wright: "The next, and I think final, installment in Tom Wright’s NT4E series is “Revelation”. Here Wright offers an idealist/preterist take on Revelation. Here are some quotes to give you a taste:"

  • Not a Single Christian Church Left in Afghanistan, Says State Department Dominion? - Not a Single Christian Church left in Afghanistan “The government’s level of respect for religious freedom in law and in practice declined during the reporting period, particularly for Christian groups and individuals,” reads the State Department report.

10/10/11:

  • Former Full Preterists: Sam Frost - Degrading the Gospel (2011) "It is a stated dogma of Full Preterism: history, procreation, cannot ever, ever, ever, ever end. There can be no “may” or “it might”, or any inference that God “may” according to some inforeseen plan that is known only to him end history or procreation. There is no “may.” Siegle and Green mean, very clearly, that history and procreation is infinite. The Bible teaches this, they say. It is a necessary, logically deduced conclusion derived from the other aspects of Full Preterist doctrine."

  • Michael Bull: Bible Matrix II: The Covenant Key  - Free PDF of the Preface, Introduction and first two chapters of The Covenant Key. / "the five-fold Covenant model of the Torah made a hyperpreterist interpretation of Revelation 20-22 impossible."

  • Whitefield Radio Archives "October is here and Whitefield Media is in full swing. Episode 13 of the program True Believer was added yesterday…an interview with Sam Frost on Orthodox Eschatology. Check out this show as well as some other great interviews on Whitefield Media’s RADIO page!

10/8/11:

  • Is Modern Israel a Fulfillment of Bible Prophecy? A Debate (DVD) Gary DeMar: "Many Christians believe that the creation of the modern state of Israel in 1948 fulfilled Old Testament prophecy and heralded the imminent return of Christ. But what does the Bible mean when it talks about the restoration of Israel? And what happens to the identity of God's people and the entire fabric of Bible prophecy when modern Israel becomes the subject of the Old Testament prophets?"

10/7/11:

10/6/11:

  • Former Full Pret Ken Palmer: General Resurrection in 30 or 70 AD? - Covenant Preterism "This text clearly states that when the law reaches its fulfillment it will pass away.. This nails shut the matter fast, and utterly refutes the Full Preterist plea for the perpetuity of the law between 30 and 70 AD, and the notion that the general, corporate resurrection of Israel occurred in 70 AD."

10/5/11:

10/1/11: Happy 15th Birthday PreteristArchive.com!


FIGHTING FOR SUPREMACY: AD30/33 VS. AD68/70
(AND DON'T FORGET AD 312 or 135 or 79)

Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones "Christ is fulfilling the law on the cross, and unless you interpret the cross, and Christ's death upon it, in strict terms of the fulfilling of the law you have not the scriptural view of the death upon the cross."  (Studies in the Sermon on the Mount, p. 168)

AD70 Storyline Fundamentally Different


10/2/11:

  • World's earliest surviving Christian inscription identified - CBS News - Showing futuristic expectation of banqueting?

    • "To my bath, the brothers of the bridal chamber carry the torches, [here] in our halls, they hunger for the [true] banquets, even while praising the Father and glorifying the Son. There [with the Father and the Son] is the only spring and source of truth."

9/27/11:

  • Dave MacPherson: Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes (2011) "Is it possible that John Bray, Thomas Ice, Grant Jeffrey and some others can locate - or manufacture - evidence of pretrib before 1830 that even Walvoord couldn't find?!"

9/26/11:

  • Why the Antichrist Matters in Politics "THE end is near — or so it seems to a segment of Christians aligned with the religious right. The global economic meltdown, numerous natural disasters and the threat of radical Islam have fueled a conviction among some evangelicals that these are the last days.. Christian apocalypticism has a long and varied history. Its most prevalent modern incarnation took shape a century ago, among the vast network of preachers, evangelists, Bible-college professors and publishers who established the fundamentalist movement. "

9/24/11:

  • John Noe new book - Hell Yes / Hell No - "It presents a balanced and scholarly re-exploration of "one of Christianity's most offensive doctrines"-Hell and the greater issue of the extent of God's grace (mercy, love, compassion, justice) and wrath in the eternal, afterlife destiny for all people. Inside, conflicting views are re-evaluated, their strengths and weaknesses re-assessed, and all the demands of Scripture are reconciled into one coherent and consistent synthesized view. "

  • Harlot & the Beast (MP3) The Book of Revelation verse by verse by by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry Recorded at Christ College in Lynchburg, VA, these twenty audio lectures by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Director of www.NiceneCouncil.com, explain that the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to the Apostle John is a forensic drama, largely telling the same story as the Epistle to the Hebrews

9/23/11:

  • Mideast action at U.N. casts spotlight on Christian Zionism CNN: ""As a Christian I have a clear directive to support Israel," Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry said in New York on Tuesday, after delivering a speech blaming the U.N. and President Barack Obama for the Palestinian statehood push. A U.S.-based group called Christians United for Israel, meanwhile, this week organized a campaign of more than 45,000 e-mails of support to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu."

  • Reformation And Apologetics: Preterism? "PARTIAL preterism can still be within limits of acceptable eschatological disagreement, but full preterism is not. FP is an inherently GNOSTIC worldview - "resurrection" becomes re-interpreted in a New Agey way as merely an allegory for rising to a higher state of consciousness. "

9/22/11:

  • Woman sues state over mandatory 'mark of the beast'   "A demand by the state of Oklahoma for people to submit to biometric digital photographs, which are stored and shared without their knowledge in order to obtain a driver's license is a violation of the state's residents' religious rights"

9/21/11:

9/18/11:

9/17/11:

  • Gary DeMar: Is Jesus Going to Reign on Earth? | American Vision "There are lots of things that people believe the Bible teaches that just aren’t there. I have developed a Bible test that makes this point. Here’s one of them: Did Noah’s ark land on Mt. Ararat? The answer is no. The ark came to rest on the mountains (plural) of Ararat (Gen. 8:4). "

  • Duncan McKenzie on why he is not a full preterist "They figured, if partial preterism is wrong, then full preterism must be right. They did not know there was something in between. It is Daniel 7 that has kept me from full preterism for the last quarter century."

9/15/11:

  • The Roman Army of the First Century:  Jerusalem Post: Following the Tenth Legion "During the Titus led, Tenth Legion’s siege of the Temple Mount complex, the Temple itself caught fire and the Jewish priests threw the keys to Jerusalem and the Temple into the burning ambers of the Temple proclaiming “Master of the Universe! Since we have not been privileged to become Thy faithful ministers, let these keys been entrusted to Thy hands!” "

9/13/11:

9/11/11:

  • Rabbi Cassi Kali: A decade later, hatred from Sept. 11 far from over "After the second temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE, the resulting devastation on the Jewish people left many asking, “why?” One reason given was that this happened not because of war or political strife, but because people harbored baseless hatred for one another."

  • MK Ze'ev: Remember Expulsion Like the Destruction of the Temple "Wednesday marked six years since the destruction of Gush Katif, the expulsion of its 8,000 Jewish residents and the burning of the synagogues there, in the “disengagement” from Gaza by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s government. MK Nissim Ze’ev (Shas) told Arutz Sheva that the expulsion from Gush Katif should be remembered just as the destruction of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem is remembered."

  • Former Full Preterists: Sam Frost - The Afterlife: Ward Fenley "In Fenley’s conception of heaven.. “challenge”, and even “mercy” will continue in heaven. That is, although our salvation in Christ always involves the Mercy of God, it is quite different to say that we will continue to show mercy in heaven towards each other, for the very meaning of mercy implies wrongdoing and justice withheld as a result. Does Fenley wish to imply that we will still sin in heaven by which we will still need to be shown mercy..?"

    In Comments: "In the full preterism view they claim “a” justification at AD30, but somehow were MORE justified at AD70??? Trouble is, this view ends up putting more emphasis on AD70 for salvation than AD30. (And I know, they will deny this, but really, what other conclusion is there?) " [TDD: I agree with Sharon.  Allow me to add that the charge of removing Calvary from its paramount rank pertains not just to heresy, but, more drastically, it pertains to idolatry.  Beware dismissing this wisdom, dear flock.]
     

  • Rabbi Cassi Kali: A decade later, hatred from Sept. 11 far from over "After the second temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE, the resulting devastation on the Jewish people left many asking, “why?” One reason given was that this happened not because of war or political strife, but because people harbored baseless hatred for one another.

9/10/11:

  • The fall of Jerusalem; and the Roman conquest of Judæa (1870) "And thus there arose a close moral connection between the fall of the great Jewish city and the death of Christ. Both events originated in the same causes and tended to the same end. The destruction of Jerusalem was a stage in the development of the faith which Christ came to reveal to mankind. And it was the same national temperament which prevented them "from knowing the things belonging to their peace," that committed them in their ruinous and deadly struggle with the masters of the world. "

9/9/11:

  • Pravda: Gov. Rick Perry wrong about Israel and prophecy "The Apostle Paul uses the same word "elements" in the Greek to refer to religious beliefs and principles (Colossians 2:20). The "heavens" represent God's relationship to Judaism. All this will be permanently done away with upon Christ's return accompanying the destruction of the Jewish Temple and Jerusalem (which occurred in 70 A.D.) " // Comment: "Why do hyperpreterists continually narrowly define Greek words to suit their presuppositions? The context is "the earth" and "heavens destroyed." Go back to verse 5. What earth is being spoken of there? Was the flood that destroyed the elements in Noah's time also figurative? The "present heavens and earth" (v. 7) is the contextual setting. Where is the plain passage that tells us that "heavens" is "God's relationship to Judaism?"

  • Mea She’arim ‘mafia’ harasses, vandalizes businesses "A bookstore in the capital’s ultra-Orthodox Mea She’arim neighborhood is struggling against a wave of attacks by a haredi group called Sikrikim (“Sicarii”) that other business-owners have called the “mafia of Mea Sha’arim.”"  "The name “Sikrikim” comes from the Latin “Sicarii,” a term applied, in the decades immediately preceding the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE"

9/8/11:

9/5/11:

9/2/11:

9/1/11:

8/31/11:

8/29/11:

8/26/11:

8/25/11:

  • Former Full Preterists: Ken Palmer - A New Position - Covenant Preterism "Although I have been vocal about my views at this time, I wanted to publish a blog publicly notating the change of my personal doctrinal statement.  In the last few months I have been in depth into the studies of Full Preterism, and have come to the conclusion, based on Max King and others during the 1970's and 80's Full Preterist work, I can only and personally attribute it to erroneous.  Since I cannot, without any doubt, retract back to any other understanding that isn't preterist centered, I must confirm my view as to be one that is imbedded into the historical church, as stated by the apostolic and pre Nicene fathers in a post 70 AD world. It is their understanding of the Biblical texts that deserve much attention, as their proximity to the era that ended in 70 CE to be of utmost importance.  Therefore, I have taken a Covenant centered preterism as represented by the apostolic and historic church of Christianity. Furthermore, I have also decided to join the Roman Catholic Church based on their preteristic principles that have been laid out over the last 2 millennia."

  • Another New Addition! - Ed Hassertt

  • Another New Addition! - Erick Blore

8/25/11:

8/22/11:

8/20/11:

8/19/11:

  • Beck Is Not Pushing For The Destruction Of Jerusalem But ... "Others are apparently concerned that Beck is one of the small minority of extremist Christian Zionists who are actively looking to cause trouble in the area to hasten the fulfillment of biblical policies. In fact, according to Beck, one reporter went as far as asking him whether he was pushing for "the destruction of Jerusalem to hasten the return of the Messiah."

8/11/11:

  • Does Perspecuity Apply to Preterism "Do those who are full preterists believe that the Bible is perspecuous? Or do you believe that in order to be a full preterist, you need someone to guide you toward that understanding? For instance, how would you have come to the belief that the 1,000 years was the 40 year period between 30AD and 70AD just by reading the Bible?"

8/9/11:

8/8/11:

  • Francis Hooper: Palmoni (1851) "A very detailed chronological calculation regarding the dates of key events in the Jewish Rebellion and prophetic passages of Scripture.

7/31/11:

"the fall of Jerusalem was the coming of Christ in His kingdom"

  • Preterist-Idealism: Isaac Williams: The Apocalypse: with notes and reflections (1852) "But the presence of the Lamb has rendered that easy which before was difficult." The six Seals appear to be fulfilled in the forty years in which the Spirit pleaded with Jerusalem before its destruction; this may be the writing "without," as understood by all: but every Seal seems also to have an ulterior fulfilment, which is the hidden sense "written within".

    • Thomas Scott: "The Praeterists—who think that the events with which the visions were concerned are altogether fulfilled, having taken place in the first centuries of Church history—are very numerous. And at present one section of the School—those who think that the book is concerned almost entirely with contemporaneous history—is very vigorously supported by Archdeacon Farrar. He thinks that the crash, and the coming of the Lord, to which the visions all point, refer to the Lord's coming at the destruction of Jerusalem, and the breaking up of the entire Jewish polity. Others of this School allow a more extended scope for the visions, and refer the predicted crash to the breaking down of heathenism before Christianity, or to the breaking up of the Roman empire. But many of the most thoughtful of the Praeterists admit (or strongly advocate) that the visions and these events have lessons for all ages, and look forward as well as back. Thus there are commentators—such as Isaac Williams, Maurice, Hengstenberg, Boussett, Vaughan, and others—who may be classed among the interpreters of both the Spiritual and Praeterist Schools; and all of the Spiritual School can recognize in the events to which both the Historic and Praeterist Schools point, illustrations of the principles which we think the Apostle depicted in these visions." (1891)

7/30/11:

  • Kurt Simmons: The Age to Come and the Eternal State (2011) "The error underlying all of these is the assumption that "this age" refers to the pre-Messianic age (or "Mosaic" age by the King/Preston/Bell/Fenely view), and "that age" to the present Christian age on earth. However, the dichotomy is not between the age extant when Jesus spoke versus that which was yet to come. The dichotomy is between this life versus the next life; this world versus heaven above."

  • Sir Isaac Newton (1733) "of that very ancient fable, that John was put by Nero into a vessel of hot oyl, and coming out unhurt, was banished by him into Patmos. Though this story be no more than a fiction, yet it was founded on a tradition of the first Churches, that John was banished into Patmos in the days of Nero." (Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John)

     
  • Former Full Preterists - Ed Hassertt: I Can No Longer Be A (Full) Preterist (2011) "In the end preterism rings as untrue for me because I cannot reconcile key scriptural concepts with preterism any longer. I always had my doubts but figured I would work them out eventually. After ten years I realize those doubts are gaping and no amount of study is going to close them for me."

    • HyP Response by Morton: "What has been going on in Ed's personal life is what I think is actually the root cause of what we are now hearing from Ed."

    • Dr. Kenneth Talbot "This is truly a manifestation of God’s Grace and we give him all the praise for your contrition."

    • Jason Bradfield: "God is chipping away at this group little by little. Ed and Sam coauthored a "reformed response", along with Dave Green and Mike Sullivan, to Keith Mathison's book, "When Shall These Things Be?" and called it "House Divided." They entitled it that as a jab at the reformed for being so wishy washy with eschatology (and they are to some degree, though in nonessential issues). Yet, here we are a few years later and two out of the four authors of "House Divided" have divided from the full pret house!"

    Preterism And The Orthodox Doctrine Of Christ's Parousia: A Constructive Critique Of M.R. King (1988)
     

7/29/11:

EARLIEST KNOWN CRITIC OF MODERN PRETERISM!

The bulk of His argument lies in this: "the destruction of Jerusalem, and rejection of the Jewes, by Alcasars owne confession was fulfilled XXV yeeres before the Revelation was given."

Ludovicus ab Alcazar called "Upstart"
(Earliest Modern Preterist; "Divine of Granata")

"Now that, besides these scopes that upstart Inquirer labours to wrest the Revelation to this purpose, as if it should teach, that R O M E, of old the head of Pagan Idolatry, by an admirable vicissitude was to bee changed into the Metropolis of the Catholicke Church, that the Romane Church wot gloriously to triumph both in respectt of the Romane Citie, and the whole Empire, and that the soveraigne authority of the Romish Pope should alwayes remaine in the height of honour', is such a filthy and impudent depravation of this most Sacred Prophesie: that even the Divell himselfe ought to blush thereat: and I should wonder if these goodly trifles do not cause laughter, or shame even to the Romish Court it selvse. But these things a little after are to be more neerly examined, when we come to the Argument. Enough touching the Order." (p 16)

"The upstart Interpreter of the Revelation (before mentioned) having thought upon a new Stratagem, I know not whether to curry favour with the Pope, or the more to harden him to his destruction, doth hence forge to himself new Oracles touching the Church , and the Monarchicall Empire of the Pope of Rome, and with his Hypotheses doth wholly stray from the Scope of this Prophesie, and to speake the truth, doth foully deprave the Argument thereof.

His Hypotheses or Positions are principally four: 0ne general; Three Special.

The generall is ofthe Argumentof the whole Revelation: that it describes a two-fold warre of the Church: one with the Synagogue, the other with Paganisme, and a two-fold viclory and triumph over both adversaries.

But the former warre with the Synagogue was already fought before the Prophesie was revealed: and the Synagogue with the Temple lay in ashes. To what purpose then should this warre have been shewed unto John as being to come afterward? Like as, faith he, things done are representedin a Comoedie. As if forsooth, Christ would represent unto John things done, and not rather, which were to come to passe afterward. As for the latter warre with Paganisme, although it was then on foot very hot already, and was further to lie more heavy upon the Christians: notwithstanding a more fierce conflict by farre with Antichrist was to befall them (not to speake ofthe Gogish Warre) by whom the Church (as is prefigured in the Apocalyps) should grievously be oppressed unto the very last times, and against whom victory and triumph is promised unto the Saints, the which all Interpreters, the Papists not excepted, do confesse.

Of his Speciall hypotheses the first is, that in the first eleven Chapters is represented the rejection of the Jewish Nation, and the desolation of the City Jerusalem by the Romanes.

The Second: That in the nine following chapters is portended the Empire of the Romane Church over Rome and the whole world, and the overthrow of Paganisme: the which forsooth should bee that horrible judgement of the Great Whore and destruction of Babylon, effected by Constantine the Great and his Successours.

The Third: That in the two last Chapters under the Type of the Lambes Bride and the New Jerusalem, is set forth the glorious and triumphant state of the Romane Church in Heaven.

But these most idle vanities will soon vanish away, if thou doest but even put them to the Touch-stone, that is, the very Text of the Prophesie; for Christ did reveale those things to John which should shortly bee done, Chap. 1. 1. and afterward Chap. 4.1. whereas therefore the destruction of Jerusalem, and rejection of the Jewes, by Alcasars owne confession was fulfilled XXV yeeres before the Revelation was given.

Who then should believe that Christ would have revealed unto John for a great mysterie, a History so generally known, under such obscure Types: Johns Revelation prophesieth of things present and to come, faith Andreas out of a Treatise of Methodius, intitled Symposium or "Banket".  Therefore the first Hypothesis is undoubtedly false.

Neither is the second more true. For the judgement of the Great Whore, and the ruine of Babylon is represented not as a grace of conversion, but as a punishment of whoredom to be inflicted on the kingdom & seat of Antichrist in the last times. Therefore to interpret this of the conversion of Rome and Paganisme unto the Faith of Christ, which came to passe three hundred yeers after Christ under Constantine and his Successours, is to make a mocke of reason.

The third is no better then the rest. The Spouse of the Lambe, and the New Jerusalem, is the whole Church of Christ, gloriously triumphing in Heaven, from whom God hath wiped away all teares: in which shall bee nothing that is defiled and abominable, as shall be afterward shewed in its place: but that the now Romane Apostaticall Church, worshipper of Idols, mother of fornications, and driver, not of Christs, but of the Beast of Antichrist (while she remains such on earth) should also belong unto the Spouse of Christ in Heaven shall then be true, when that of the Apostle is false: "Be not deceived, neither Fornicators, nor Idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankinde, nor thieves, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor blasphemers, nor extortioners shall enherit the Kingdom of God. Shall I take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot: which shall be ad Calendas Graecai, that is, never.

But what need I trouble my self: This new fiction of the Inquirer is abundantly refuted by the judgement of Ribera, Bellarmine, and other most acute Doctors of his owne order: although scarcely there be any one of them, whom be doth not most freely censure.

But of late a certaine learned and judicious Divine scemeth to have set forth in lively colours the argument of that painfull and most polished Inquiry, in an Epistle, which I shall here annexe." (pp. 17,18)


IS 1618 USAGE OF "PRETERPERFECT" IN DISTINGUISHING PAST FULFILLMENT PRECURSOR TO 19TH C. TERM "PRETERISM"?

David Pareus (1618) "The Angell saith.. is come, for, shall certainly come, by an usuall Enallage of the preterperfect tense instead of the future." (p 342)

"What Pareus refers to as "preterperfect" is in a modern grammar the second aorist active indicative. The "dramatic" aorist states a result "on the point of being accomplsihed" with the emphatic "certitude of a past event," although the aorist has "no essentian temporal significance" (John Charles Hawley ; Dana and Mantey 1955: 198, 193)


7/28/11:

  • Nehemiah Nisbett - Letter illustrative of the Gospel history, and of the Epistles, as connected with it (1812) ‎"it has been boldly asserted, in the Theological Repository, under the direction of the late Dr. Priestley, and never, that I know of, attempted to be contradicted, in any part of his numerous works, that our Lord is recorded by his historians Matthew, Mark and Luke, to have declared that his second earning was one of those events which would happen during the lives of some of his contemporaries. "

  • Thomas D. Ice 100-Pound Hailstones? (2009 PDF) "The plagues, judgments, and disasters in the Book of Revelation and in other biblically prophetic passages are not understood by some as literally descriptive of miraculous events that God will bring one day upon mankind. Instead, non-literal interpreters of these passages say that these descriptions are either symbolic for a nonhistorical event or they insist on a naturalistic interpretation. Such approaches have a difficult time accepting the fact that God will actually throw 100 pound hailstones at mankind during a future tribulation judgment. What are passages like Revelation 16:21 saying? Is this to be seen as a future supernatural event or is it best understood naturalistically as a past event?"

  • Van Loomis: Hope for Today and Tomorrow: G.C. Berkouwer's Doctrines of Providence and Resurrection with regard to 9/11 and the rise of Hyper-Preterism (2007 PDF) Submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of MASTER OF THEOLOGY in the subject SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY at the UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH AFRICA // "This dissertation argues for the hope that is found in G. C. Berkouwer’s doctrines of providence and bodily resurrection in relation to the terrorist attack on September 11, 2001, and the rising pervasiveness of the doctrine of hyperpreterism among American Reformed circles."

  • Tommy Ice articles at Liberty.edu

  • Jason Robertson: Isaiah 9 and the infinite procreation error of full preterism (2010)

7/23/11:

  • James Farquarson: Daniel's Last Vision and Prophecy, respecting which Commentators have greatly differed from each other, showing its Fulfilment in events recorded in authentic history (1838) - Now hosted at PreteristArchive.com

    • "In the conclusion of our illustration of these last predictions, we present some additional considerations, which, in our view, compel us to reject any application of this last chapter of Daniel to the general resurrection, by their clearly directing us to apply the 11th verse of it to the siege and destruction of Jerusalem by Titus. "

      "The most approved commentators of modern times have applied much of the latter part to events, that have occurred since the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, and the last chapter to the general resurrection from the dead ; whereas the quotation from it, by Christ, obviously directs us to look for the fulfilment of the whole, in events that occurred at, or antecedently to, that destruction. "

    Written in a "Parousia by JS Russell" style.  About as Preterist as you can get, while still holding onto the blessed hope of a proper wrapup.

    Philip Mauro - "The book was written by James Farquharson, and was printed in Aberdeen, Scotland, in 1838. It bears the following quaint and lengthy title: Daniel's Last Vision and Prophecy, respecting which Commentators have greatly differed from each other, showing its Fulfilment in events recorded in authentic history."

  • Robert Drummelow: A Commentary on the Holy Bible (1920) "The sketch of the purpose of the book will have shown that the 'Preterist' view is at the basis of the present Commentary.  The probability of this view is supported by the analogy of other apocalypses.   And it seems natural to suppose that the book would be meant to be intelligible by those to whom it the language and the figures of the book are found to fit the condition of the early days of Christianity, and to yield, on this system, a consistent and unforced interpretation.

7/18/11:

7/10/11:

ADDED ABRIDGED LIST OF BOOKS CITING PRETERISTARCHIVE.COM

7/15/11:


G.L. Stone

The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy;

or, All pure prophecy terminated in the Advent of Christ and the establishment of Christianity

G.L. Stone - "It may as well be stated also here, that the Professor (Samuel Lee) appears to have been more indebted to Calvin than he seemed to be aware of; while the valuable labours of Grotius and Hammond — indeed, it may be added, of Bossuet and Calmet—immensely helped towards the same conclusion."


7/11/11:

7/8/11:

6/29/11:

  • Former Full Preterists: John Riffe - Mythbusting "All Things Fulfilled by 70AD" "Pre-70AD Millennialism would have us to believe that this statement by Jesus means that the Old Testament Law of Moses was to remain binding and in full effect until.. 70AD. But let's consider something else Jesus said, John 19:28-30 "After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished (#5055), that the scripture might be fulfilled (#5048), saith, "I thirst!"

6/21/11:

  • Preterism and Matthew 24 in a Latter-day Saint Context "And, finally, when we come to read Doctrine and Covenants 45, we find that Jesus Christ actually revealed to Joseph Smith the fulfillment of the Destruction of Jerusalem, and in what manner he distinguished the two prophecies."

6/13/11:

  • Malawian Man Sentenced For Wrongly Predicting End Of The World It's bad enough that the world didn't end on May 21 for followers of Christian fringe group leader Harold Camping, but things got worse for a Malawian disciple who pleaded guilty for distributing false leaflets about the end of the world. Saduki Mwambene, a 39-year-old bicycle repairman, got six months"

6/12/11:

6/4/11:

  • JPost - This Week in History: Titus breaks through the Jerusalem wall

  • Kurt Simmons - The Time of Reformation (2011) "What was the "time of reformation" in Hebrews 9:1-10? Some suppose it points to AD 70, others the cross. Which is correct?   ‎"If Christians could not legally and covenantally enter the Most Holy Place prior to AD 70, then the New Testament was not yet in force. But the writer of Hebrews makes clear that that the New Testament came into force at the Testator's (Jesus') death (Heb. 9:17). But as the New Testament verily came into force with Jesus' death, then were believers admitted into the presence of God, cleansed and justified from sin before AD 70. The writer thus encourages believers to have "boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," signifying that they should boldly embrace the New Covenant, leaving behind the relics of Moses without hesitation or fear. "

6/1/11:

  • Former Full Preterists: Roderick Edwards - The UnPreterist: Christianity Before and After AD70 "Christians before AD70 and Christians after AD70 believed, taught and practiced the same things about basic eschatology as we Christians today. " This is the rare Edwards repost here, so if interested in the topic, please give it a gander and ponder/comment on the premise. blessings to all!

  • Why the Apocalypse Is So Compelling "The reasons behind why apocalyptic movements suddenly gain traction tell us a lot about ourselves and our society. We think about the end not merely during times of stress, but during times of uncertainty. That said, we can all look forward to the next round of apocalyptic hysteria in 2012."

5/28/11:

5/24/11:

  • Preacher says world will actually end in October A California preacher who foretold of the world's end only to see the appointed day pass with no extraordinarily cataclysmic event has revised his apocalyptic prophecy, saying he was off by five months and the Earth actually will be obliterated on Oct. 21.

5/22/11:

5/20/11:

  • Everyday Rapture Some are convinced that The Rapture will occur on May 21, 2011. But days and hours are the provenance of God, not man, and in a way Raptures happen every day, in many ways.

  • The Biblical Nature of Hoppean Monarchism by Ryan Bassett "Recently, after having read a preterist interpretation of the Book of Daniel something leapt out of the page. There appears to be a biblical basis for the Hoppean thesis of the corrupt nature of Democratic mob rule as opposed to the somewhat lesser tyranny of traditional monarchism. Notice the following excerpt from a discussion regarding the prophesy of the 7th chapter of Daniel"

  • Judgment Day 'Rapture Parties' planned as evangelist Harold Camping predicts huge earthquake Harold Camping is certain that Saturday is Judgment Day - and just in case he’s right, some Americans are making the most of their time left with ‘Rapture Parties’ across the country.

5/19/11:

  • 'Rapture' Movement Predicts End of the World on Saturday A loosely organized Christian movement has spread the word around the globe that Jesus Christ will return to earth on Saturday to gather the faithful into heaven. While the Christian mainstream isn't buying it, many other skeptics are milking it.

5/18/11:

5/14/11:

  • The Enduring Appeal of the Apocalypse Why are prophecies of doom so commonplace in human history? The answer lies in the brain's evolution.

  • Is May 21, 2011 “Judgment Day”? "Make no mistake: Harold Camping is a prophet—a false prophet. Every scripture he cites—without exception—is twisted, mangled and butchered. The Bible warns of such “evil men and seducers” (II Tim. 3:13) in our time, but like all of its other warnings, most do not heed."

5/12/11:

5/10/11:

4/29/11:

4/26/11: John Hewlett - Commentaries and Annotations (1816) - Fixed PDF for Volume Two

New Text, Doc, and PDF of Abauzit's Historical Discourse on the Apocalypse
(1730 - Edited and Formatted by Greg Kiser)

4/25/11:

4/24/11:

  • Jerusalem's time tunnels "On the final day of the Great Revolt against the Romans, in 70 C.E., as the Temple was going up in flames, the last of the Jewish rebels escaped into the city's underground sewer system in a desperate attempt to flee the Roman legionnaires. "Those in the sewers were ferreted out, the ground was torn up, and all who were trapped were killed," reported contemporary historian Flavius Josephus.

4/20/11:

  • Former Full Preterists: Sam Frost: Full Preterist Propositions | Reign of Christ Ministries (2011)

    "If there ever were an attempt to systematically build a Full Preterist system, these three propositions would form the foundation.

    1. The Bible never speaks about the end of time, only the time of the end.

    2. All prophecy was fulfilled by AD 70.

    3. All prophecy was fulfilled at once, at one time in history."


     

  • "John Anderson, host of "The Voice of Reason" for 10 years, has passed away. Additional information available on request.

    • To our dear friends,

      My precious husband, John had a stroke Tuesday morning and went to be with the Lord. As you can imagine, my heart is broken. Not only have I lost my husband, but I have lost my Bible teacher and best friend.. And even though I am so confused and having a hard time accepting right now I know my Redeemer liveth and HE is sufficient and faithful.

      Just wanted to let you all know so you can pray for me and the ministry and the direction we need to take. I am open to wisdom and direction from those whose heart is close to this ministry.

      Blessings,

      Ann Marie Anderson

4/14/11:

  • Time Mag: Is Hell Dead? "If you say the Bible doesn't really say what a lot of people have said it says, then where does that stop? If the verses about hell and judgment aren't literal, what about the ones on adultery, say, or homosexuality? Taken to their logical conclusions, such questions could undermine much of conservative Christianity."

4/12/11:

  • Armageddon? Been there, done that. "Actually, the world has ended. The Rapture, more or less, already came and went. We just weren't paying much attention. As usual, it's all about the Romans.. But the events predicted in the book of Revelation have already happened, just not in the way that most people think."

4/9/11:

4/8/11:

  • Christian Reconstructionism targeted in political hit-piece.. (noting DeMar, Rushdoony, North)  On April 6, 2011 Jon Stewart questioned presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee about David Barton. Stewart missed a few things. For example, Barton’s Wallbuilders web site has for almost a decade featured an article, by a member of Barton’s Wallbuilders board of director

 

4/3/11:

4/2/11:

3/30/11:

  • Former Full Preterists: Erick Blore - 9 to 5 Thesis "For those who already consider themselves “preterist,” there are two passages in particular where there is disagreement: 1 The. 4, and 1 Cor. 15. ..they yielded Russell’s most controversial opinions and torpedoed any chance at wide-spread adoption of what we might dub “preterist-premillennialism.” But before we get to those passages, let’s set the stage by discussing where Christ is said to reign at his parousia.

  • David Padfield: Days of Vengeance (2011) - Nifty 33-page outline!  The destruction of Jerusalem was an act of God's vengeance and judgment, not Rome's; these would be the days when people were punished for their sins. The destruction of the holy city was not an accidental or arbitrary act, but the just recompense of reward for those who rejected God's Son.

  • Apocalypse brings renewal along with destruction
  • Dr. Ron J. Bigalke: Did the Early Church Affirm Preterism? Part One "Full preterism believes that all eschatological prophecies were fulfilled in AD 70, and that there will only be a spiritual resurrection rather than a bodily resurrection. Consequently, full preterism is heretical. The preterist view teaches that the destruction of God’s enemy, Israel, is indisputable proof for the divine establishment of Christianity."

     

3/28/11:

  • Iranian Video Says Mahdi is 'Near' New evidence has emerged that the Iranian government sees the current unrest in the Middle East as a signal that the Mahdi--or Islamic messiah--is "about to appear".

3/26/11:

  • Reviewing Max King’s I Corinthians 15 Arguments An explanation of the "CBV" - Corporate Body View - of Max King and Full Preterism

  • Dispensational Preterism "Dispensational Preterism understands that the the transformation of the heavenly city Jerusalem as well as its citizens, are key to the fulfillment of Old Testament Prophecies." Patrick Stone's "Ning" site... Has potential; deserves attention. (Thanks for the post Todd. I would like to mention that my www.unravelingtherevelation.com site is mostly about chronology which leads to the preterist view. The other site, www.whiteroberesurrection.com, deals with my particular IBD view. Finally, the ning site is where I post misc articles and answer questions or have friendly debates. Thanks again and God Bless...Patrick)

     

3/25/11:

3/24/11:

  • Dismissed for Facebook 'like' of Rob Bell "For many traditional Christians, though, Bell's new book sounds a lot like the old theological position of universalism — a heresy for many churches, teaching that everyone, regardless of religious belief, will ultimately be saved by God. And that, they argue, dangerously misleads people about the reality of the Christian faith."

3/23/11:

  • Quo Vadis (1951) - Theatrical Trailer // Nero dubbed "The Beast" ; "The Antichrist" From the Sienkiewicz novel: "The words of the Apostle inspired the Christians with fresh hope. The end of the world seemed to them always at hand. Yet they now began to realize that the terrible final judgment had been postponed, and that the first thing that would happen would be the end of Nero, whose reign they considered as that of Antichrist, and whose crimes cried to God for vengeance."

3/20/11:

Not published 'for want of paper' until 1950 ; The real reason seems to have been the preteristic contents... For, even upon printing, his section on "Parousia" was suppressed.  Read it here:

Daniel Lamont : Studies in Johannine Writings "What did our Lord mean by His Parousia, which He foretold was to take place some forty years from the time when He spoke of it?  It was not the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.  That Jewish catastrophe was only to be the sign of His Parousia (Matt. 24:3,30).  His Parousia, in its essence, was something which was to happen in the unseen world.  It was to be in the realm of superhistory (Matt. 24:31).  John in the Apocalypse connects the historical event of the destruction of Jerusalem with the superhistorical event of our Lord's Parousia, as our Lord Himself did, and brings out the meaning of the connection, thus correcting current misunderstandings.  He does not use the word Parousia, perhaps because of these misunderstandings."

 

3/17/11:

  • Luther's Baggage: Israel in the Eschata, Part 3 of 3 "Sproul says that in his eschatological pilgrimage, he has fluctuated, at times being drawn to the amillennial position and at other times, the historic premillennial view. However, despite having given little credence to postmillennialism in the past, he says: “Yet to my surprise, I have found myself more and more attracted to an orthodox post-mill position with its moderate preterist perspective”.

  • Is Japan Disaster Another Apocalyptic Sign? "Does such an idea reflect merely the hardhearted ravings of religious fanatics bent on making a buck from humanity’s misery, or is it possible that planet earth is indeed approaching the biblical “end of days”? ('Reporting' using lines of questioning seems incredibly lazy - and soo common)

  • Source Material on 4 Enoch: The Online Encyclopedia of Second Temple Judaism

  • Japan Quake, Tsunami ‘End Times’ Sign, Say Some Evangelical Christians - “Sumatra 9.1, Katrina, Rita, massive flooding in Australia, birds and fish dying around the world, bees disappearing, Middle East uprisings, and now Japan’s killer quake.” (Don't forget "dogs and cats living together")

  • Dr. Peter Bluer - 373 a Proof Set in Stone "A scholar who was much influenced by (Alex.) Brown was Daniel Lemont, Professor in Edinburgh University, whom I knew. ..he maintained that the Parousia took place 40 years after the resurrection of Jesus, that it was not identical with the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem, but an event in the unseen world which took place at the same time"
  • Recanting Full Preterism: Abauzit  Townley  Desprez - Preterism has a long history of adherents who recanted. Here the works of three prominent men who embraced preterist or hyperpreterist views, but later recanted, are examined

  • Gary DeMar on Horton - An Incomplete Systematic Theology "Horton is a full professor at a top-flight seminary. He’s just published a comprehensive 1000-page systematic theology. His section on eschatology runs nearly 90 pages and is mostly definitional. There is a section on Matthew 24 where he argues that a first-century, pre-A.D. 70 fulfillment" (Alternative view from my skiing buddy, Michael Horton. We talked about Preterism a bit on the slopes. Riddlebarger, as his favorite contemporary preterist.)

  • Armageddon Entrepreneurs: Who's Profiting From Fear? "Left Behind co-author Tim LaHaye has already been tying the disaster in Japan to his reading of the Bible: "The Bible tells us in Matthew 24 that one of the signs of the last days — one of the birth pangs to occur — is an increase in earthquake activity and intensity," he told WorldNetDaily. "


PATRICK STONE PRETERIST BELIEFS CHART
Showing the distinction between Full Preterism and IBD Preterism

"Another work which takes a similar line is Alexander Brown, The Great Day of the Lord (1894). A scholar who was much influenced by Brown was Daniel Lamont, Professor in Edinburgh University, whom I knew. After his death in 1950, a volume of his - Studies in the Johannine Writings - was published in which he maintained that the Parousia took place 40 years after the resurrection of Jesus, that it was not identical with the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem, but an event in the unseen world which took place at the same time (and which included the resurrection of the just); since then, believers at death have gone immediately into the Lord's presence, receiving their 'spiritual bodies' forthwith." // F.F. Bruce on Lamont: "A conservative line is also taken by the late Daniel Lamont (a former President of the I.V.F.) in his posthumously published Studies in the Johannine Writings (James Clarke, 1956)." (Quoted in 373 a Proof Set in Stone - Page 256)

3/15/11:
 

  • Reclassified: Alexander Brown - From  Hyper Preterism to Modern Preterism "He does not anticipate any catastrophe at 'the end of the age,' but a steady progress on the part of Christianity until at length, in spite of occasional regressions, it achieves a universal victory." (The overwhelming support for this work from contemporary theologians -- including heavily critical ones such as Beet -- reveals the most consistent preterist view to be considered within the bounds of received Christianity (perhaps besides Russell, pending closer review -- Alpheus Crosby having been censured by Dartmouth).  If IBD prets abandon the overstated fulfillment language with which they don't really agree -- such as "all prophecy fulfilled by AD70" or "the resurrection is past, it was in AD70" -- they may likewise find themselves considered no threat to 'orthodoxy'.) // G.R. Beasly-Murray "Among others we may name Alexander Brown, whose exposition The Great Day of the Lord deeply impressed James Hastings (the latter thought its interpretation of the Book of Revelation the most satisfying that had appeared)." (Jesus and the future: an examination of the criticism of the eschatological discourse, Mark 13, with special reference to the little apocalypse theory, p. 169) [The statements of both Beet and Hastings available on the Brown page. Enjoy!]  //

    CLICK HERE FOR BEET PDF
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  • Free Online Books: Johann Gottfried Eichhorn - Introduction to the Old Testament - A Fragment of Eichorn's Einleitung in das Alte Testament (Leipzig, 1780–1783 PDF)

  • Free Online Books: Johann Gottfried Eichhorn (German Student of J.D. Michaelis) An Account of the Life and Writings of John David Michaelis (1835 PDF)

  • Japan today, Jerusalem tomorrow "The survey shows that more than half of respondents adhere to the theological position known as Premillennialism, which interprets the Book of Revelation to be speaking of yet future events. In contrast, only 17 percent of those polled say they believe most biblical prophecy has already been fulfilled." (17% is not bad at all..)
     

  • 3/14/11: Philip Schaff Commentary: The International Revision Commentary on the New Testament: Matthew & Mark (1881-) Out of humble beginnings.. eventually, we'll see Schaff's entire editorial catalogue available here. 
     

  • 3/10/11: Reclassified: Dr. Kelly Nelson Birks - From Progressive Full Preterism to Modern Preterism "The author takes the position that the bible teaches that Christ's victory is progressive in it's linear and historical effects relative to the goal of the future consummation of all things in accordance with the divine plan of overthrowing sin in all of it's expressions within the experience of mankind, and that we have been slowly heading towards this biblical goal. This has been happening essentially from creation, but most certainly from the advent of Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  He will, "....gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and on earth...." (The End of Sin, p. 8)

PDF THURSDAY!

 

  • 3/10/11: John Hewlett - Commentaries and Annotations (1816) Latest Study Archive!

  • 3/9/11: Rev. Heneage Elsley - Annotations on the Four Gospels, and the Acts of the Apostles (1799) - PDF Files for all three volumes  - Vol. 1 | Vol. 2 | Vol. 3  "The obligations which the Christian world owe to the writings of Josephus are very great... Lastly, and above all, Josephus seems to have been raised by Providence to verify, in his relation of the miseries accompanying the siege of Jerusalem, the prophecies of our blessed Lord relating to that dreadful catastrophe." (Introduction to "Annotations on the four Gospels")

  • 3/8/11: Rev. Heneage Elsley Latest Study Archive!

  • 3/7/11:  Reclassified: Duncan McKenzie, Ph.D. From Modern Preterism to Progressive Full Preterism  Duncan's View is about as close to "Orthodox Evangelicalism" from Full Preterism as one can get, without actually arriving there.  The sticking point is "AD70 as the Second and Only Coming of Jesus".  This view has never been held by an orthodox commentator.  Some have called AD70 the "Second Coming" (Hammond, Lightfoot) but allowed for Christ's Parousia to be unfulfilled.

  • 3/7/11:  Reclassified: Dr. Kelly Nelson Birks to Progressive Full Preterism "Neither can he embrace all that is understood by some that consider themselves "Full Preterist," a view which proclaims absolutely no future fulfillment of any biblical prophecy past the AD 70 paradigm. The author holds to the Modified Preterist view that all prophecies surrounding the Parousia of Christ have in fact taken place, but with still future- to us -ramifications as to their effects." (End of Sin, p. 193)

  • 3/6/11: Hebrews: Randall C. Gleason - The  Eschatology of the Warning in Hebrews 10:26-31 (2002 PDF) "The absence of NT damnation terminology in Hebrews calls into question the widely held assumption that the author’s purpose was to warn his readers of eternal judgement. Furthermore, to limit the warnings to a distant future judgement overlooks its nearness and diminishes its relevance to the first-century audience facing the dangers arising from the first Jewish revolt. There are many clues throughout the epistle that point to the physical threat posed by the coming Roman invasion to those Christians who lapsed back into Judaism. These clues point immediately to the destruction of Palestine, the city of Jerusalem and the Temple. These conclusions are confirmed by a close examination of the OT texts cited or alluded to in Hebrews 10:26–31. Rather than eternal destruction, the OT examples warn of physical judgement coming upon Israel because of covenant unfaithfulness. If they sought refuge in Judaism, the readers could suffer the same fate of the Jewish rebels by the Romans. However, the readers could avoid God’s wrath coming upon the Jewish nation by holding firm to their confession, bearing the reproach of Christ outside the camp (13:13), and looking to the heavenly city instead of Jerusalem now under the sentence of destruction (13:14)."

  • 3/5/11: Roman Empire Study Archive: Sir John Edwin Sandys - A Full Chronology of Ancient Rome in A companion to Latin Studies (1910 pdf)

  • 3/2/11:  Reclassified: Arthur Melanson - From Hyper Preterism to Progressive Full Preterism  

  • 3/2/11:  Reclassified: Sam Frost - From Progressive Full Preterism to Modern Preterism

MARCH 2011 - FACEBOOK

  • Westboro attorney: Obama is ‘The Beast’ from Revelation | Raw Replay “The president is going to be king of the world before this is all said and done and he is most likely The Beast spoken of in the Revelation,” she told Fox News’ Chris Wallace. This video is from Fox’s Fox News Sunday, broadcast March 6, 2011.

  • Search Results for "Jerusalem" (Public Only) UC Press E-Books Collection

  • Full Books Online: Daggers of Faith: Thirteenth-Century Christian Missionizing and Jewish Response ( ‎"Rabbi Solomon rejects this suggestion on two grounds. (1) "First because they did not judge capital cases in Babylonia. [Indeed they did] not [judge capital cases] even in Jerusalem forty years prior to the destruction [of the Second Temple]."

  • The Christian Petrarchist - The Renaissance Bible (1994)  "And in any case lette us take heede howe daungerous a thynge it is to make Christe Jesus weepe." - John Stockwood, "A very fruitful and necessary sermon of the destruction of Jerusalem" (1584) Christ struggles one final time to make Jerusalem relent, but in the end he turns away with the futile warning, "Save thy selfe as well as thou mayst, for I have forsaken thee; to desolation have I resigned thee". Christ cannot save his bel...oved; rather, he causes her destruction, since the city falls as punishment for the Crucifixion. He knows this. He is aware that, although he became man "to the end that Hell (not Jerusalem ) might perish," nevertheless his coming to Jerusalem has "opend & enwidened Hell mouth, to swallow thee and devoure thee".

  • Sam Frost: Dealing with Error (2011) ..after being Full Preterist for 19 years, and teaching, lecturing and writing for 9 years, I have seen these tendencies from the outside; while inside, I buried my head, or smoothed over the rough patches. After all, we gotta keep this movement alive at all costs.

  • Bimillennialism - A Contemporary-Historical Analysis of the Apocalypse "I cannot imagine how so many people fall into the error the "Christ's 1000 year reign." Christ doesn't reign 1000-years, he reigns forever! The saints share in Christ's reign for 1000 years from Hades, and the dragon is symbolically bound ...in Tartarus (bottomless pit) for 1000 years. In both cases the 1000 years apply ONLY to the subjects of the passage, never to Christ!"

  • Peter J. Leithart » Dating Revelation again (2011) "What do we actually have? The testimony of Irenaeus (itself ambiguous), two anonymous references, Eusebius (whose only explicit source is Irenaeus), and Victorinus. That constitutes a “unanimous” tradition?"

  • 1948 and the Wandering Dispensationalist in "A Second Look at the Second Coming" Speculation about the apocalypse has become almost an industry. "The world is coming to an end" the frenzied prophets cry. We know that the Lord will come again, and eagerly await Him, but where is sober teaching on the apocalypse?Read a balanced, well-researched treatment of the end times

"Preterism still struggled to gain credibility within other Protestant countries, especially England. The English commentator Thomas Hayne claimed that the prophecies of the Book of Daniel had all been fulfilled by the 1st century (‘Christs Kingdom on Earth’, 1645), and Joseph Hall expressed the same conclusion concerning Daniel’s prophecies (‘The Revelation Unrevealed’, 1650), but neither of them applied their Preterist views to Revelation."

2/26/11:

2/16/11:

I would now like to enter into some negative argumentation that should be conclusive against the positions on Israel and the earthly reign of Christ that my friend here holds. First I would like to give 16 reasons that national Israel will not be restored, and is no longer necessary in the plan of God.

  1. If God were to restore national Israel, he would have to raise again the middle wall of partition that Christ destroyed through his death, thereby making the death of Christ null and void, Ephesians 2:14

  2. Israel’s favor with God was always conditional (Deut. 28:1,15). Israel no longer met the conditions and perished as a nation (Matt. 23:31-38; Heb. 8:9).

  3. OT prophecies which foretell the return of the Jews to Palestine were fulfilled in release from political captivity (Jer. 25:12; 29:10; Ezra 1:1). Other restorations after this are for Gentiles and Jews (Isa. 49:5-6; Acts 13:47; 2 Cor. 6:2).

  4. The axe lay at the root of national Israel (Matthew 3:10) this was including the wrath about to (Mello) come in verse 7, which was fulfilled in 70 AD. There is hope for restoration if the roots remain (Job 14:7,8; Isa. 11:1), but not when the roots are cut out.

  5. " None will taste of my supper, " in Luke 14:24 refers to the Jewish majority, a remnant accepted (Romans 11:5). Why did not the Lord give a clue of a future massive Jewish acceptation of the invitation?

  6. In Luke 19:14-27, the Lord said that the citizens of national Israel would not have him to rule over them. The result, he would slay that nation. How will he rule over a slain nation in the millennium?

  7. The theory of Paul expecting a mass conversion of Israel is false because Paul said that he would wish himself accursed for this sort of conversion to happen (Romans 9:3).

  8. Abraham is the father of Jews and Gentiles (Gal. 3:26,29).

  9. Jews and Gentiles alike in the church are the Israel of God (Gal. 6:14-16)

  10. Christians are the circumcision, all that makes up a national Jew is of no effect in Christ (Phil. 3:2-7; Gal. 5:6)

  11. Christians are the twelve tribes, which are the assembly of the saints (James 1:1-2; 2:2).

  12. If worship is to be centered in Jerusalem with national Israel during the millennium, then why did Jesus say worship would be moved from Jerusalem (John 4:20-24)?

  13. If the church is the heavenly Jerusalem (Heb. 12:22,23), then surely there would be no need to restore national, earthly Jerusalem in the millennium. That would be setting sites on earthly, not heavenly things.

  14. In speaking of the Jews in Matthew 10:45, Jesus said that the last state of the Jews would be worse than the first. If a massive conversion of the Jews occurs, then the last state would be better than the first, and make Christ give a false prophecy.

  15. In Matthew 21:43, Jesus said that the kingdom that was offered the Jews (the same kingdom), would be taken from them and given to another nation (the church). How can a kingdom postponement or different kingdom for the church theory be maintained in the light of this?

  16. Why did Paul renounce all of his Jewish nationality to be a Christian, if the restoration of the Jews was to be Paul’s final destiny after the resurrection in the millennium (Phil. 3:2-8)?

2/16/11:

  • Chris Nelson : A Brief History of the Apocalypse "Unlike those daring prophets that set a date or time window for the End, many doomsayers hedge their bets by not gambling on a particular date, but instead merely insist that the end is coming SOON! This of course renders their prophecies untestable, but at the same time scary enough to bamboozle the gullible into believing them. SOON! has a nebulous quality about it: it could mean tomorrow, next year, or even a million yeas from now, long after the prophet and his followers are no longer around to lose face. Such prophets are too numerous to list in their entirety, so I will just include some of the more notable, off-beat and interesting ones here."

2/15/11:

  • Randall C. Gleason: The Eschatology Of The Warning In Hebrews 10:26–31 (2002 PDF) "The absence of NT damnation terminology in Hebrews calls into question the widely held assumption that the author’s purpose was to warn his readers of eternal judgement. Furthermore, to limit the warnings to a distant future judgement overlooks its nearness and diminishes its relevance to the first-century audience facing the dangers arising from the first Jewish revolt. There are many clues throughout the epistle that point to the physical threat posed by the coming Roman invasion to those Christians who lapsed back into Judaism. These clues point immediately to the destruction of Palestine, the city of Jerusalem and the Temple. These conclusions are confirmed by a close examination of the OT texts cited or alluded to in Hebrews 10:26–31. Rather than eternal destruction, the OT examples warn of physical judgement coming upon Israel because of covenant unfaithfulness. If they sought refuge in Judaism, the readers could suffer the same fate of the Jewish rebels by the Romans. However, the readers could avoid God’s wrath coming upon the Jewish nation by holding firm to their confession, bearing the reproach of Christ outside the camp (13:13), and looking to the heavenly city instead of Jerusalem now under the sentence of destruction (13:14)."

2/14/11:

Added Sam Frost Links:

2/13/11:

From Debate on "The Cross vs. AD70"  with Don Preston:

"This is the long and short of Don’s teaching: nothing happened at the cross."

  • To what event does scripture attach man’s salvation, the death of Christ upon the cross, or his coming in wrath upon the Jews and Romans?   (Simmons: Cross ; Preston: AD70)

  • Was the law fulfilled and did the legal efficacy of the Old Testament end at the cross, or did it remain valid and binding until the second coming?     (Simmons: Cross ; Preston: AD70)

  • Was remission of sins and fulness of grace available from and after the cross, at Pentecost when the gospel was first preached were sins remitted and washed away, or was salvation from sin postponed until Jerusalem fell?     (Simmons: Cross ; Preston: AD70)

FEBRUARY 2011 - FACEBOOK

  • Richard Watson: The History of the Jewish War, and of the Siege of Jerusalem, From Josephus (1785)

  • Christianity Today: Heaven, Hell, and Rob Bell (Partial Preterist Universalism) In case you've been living in a cave without Wi-Fi, one popular blogger who read a couple of advance chapters of Bell's latest book, announced that Bell was probably a universalist. This set Twitter on fire with both speculation and condemnation.

  • Grady Brown: That All May Be Fulfilled (2005) Brown: "Every single human being who had lived up to that point in time when that "present age" came to its stunning climax was brought before the Great Tribunal of King Jesus to give an account for the things they had done alive. From that point onward, we have been living in "the age to come" with an entirely different governing paradigm." - (Full Preterist Universalism) Author's blog: http://godtalkblog.com/

  • The Oxyrhynchus Papyri The remarkable discovery you’ve probably never heard of "in an ancient rubbish heap they hit the archaeological lottery: papyrus containing a series of heretofore-unknown sayings of Jesus. It was an unbelievable discovery. And yet, it was all true. Fifty years later the original gospel from which these words came would be discovered at Nag Hammadi, and we would soon come to know them as sayings 26–33 of the Gospel of Thomas."

  • Jerusalem Post on the "Pella Flight Tradition" - Head for the hills "About 68 CE, as Vespasian's legions encircled Jerusalem (which they would destroy two years later), a revelation came to the early Christians there, reminding them of Jesus' words: "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains". Historian Ray Pritz.. accompanied me to Pella, Jordan last month to investigate the "Flight to Pella" tradition"

  • Chuck Smith claims current unrest is partial fulfillment of Luke 21:25 On a recent radio broadcast, Chuck Smith claims current unrest is fulfillment of Luke 21:25: "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; " KJV  

  • Russell Earl Kelly, Ph. D.: PRETERISM and the NEW TESTAMENT (2011) Section 1: Defining Preterism Section 2: Messianic Kingdom Texts and References to Israel in the New Testament Section 3: Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21: Comparing Hyper-Preterism to Futurism Section 4: Key Differences between Preterism and Futurism Section 5: Preteism and the Kingdom

  • Podcast: The Jason & Sam Show #3 | Full Preterist Presuppositionalism Sam Frost "Are full preterists free from unbiased exegesis? Are they free from forcing texts into a ‘tradition’? Listen in as Sam exposes the presuppositions of Dan Delagrave, Kurt Simmons, Max King, and yes, the Sam Frost behind Misplaced Hope."

  • Paul Rakowicz' "Early Church Preterism" Website

  • Second adventism in the light of Jewish history (1872) "The following Treatise takes the ground that the Second Advent or Coming of Christ is an event which transpired over 1700 years ago. How far the writer has succeeded in sustaining that position the reader can judge when he has duly considered the facts adduced in support of it."

  • I Corinthians 13: A Re-look | Reign of Christ Ministries “The Perfect” (to teleion, which we will discuss further) is viewed as being the events surrounding AD 70. This is an assumption that is carried into this text, for the Full Preterist is logically restrained from reading any prophecy outside of the AD 70 terminus ad quem. However, after we consider the following material, it will be seen that such a terminus is to be rejected as misguided. "

  • Amazon.com: The End of the Ages Has Come: Early Interpretation of the Passion and Resurrection of Jesus How does one explain the New Testament texts that seem to announces the arrival of the long-awaited Day of the Lord? More particularly, what is the explanation for those passages in which the passion of Jesus is interpreted as belonging to the eschatological tribulation

  • F.F. Bruce "The Time is Fulfilled" - On Shadow and Substance / F.F. Bruce - The Time Is Fulfilled (1978)

1/25/11:

Stumbled upon a real treasure:

  • James Farquharson - Daniel's Last Vision and Prophecy, respecting which Commentators have greatly differed from each other, showing its Fulfilment in events recorded in authentic history (1838) ‎"In the conclusion of our illustration of these last predictions, we present some additional considerations, which, in our view, compel us to reject any application of this last chapter of Daniel to the general resurrection, by their clearly directing us to apply the 11th verse of it to the siege and destruction of Jerusalem by Titus. "

    "The most approved commentators of modern times have applied much of the latter part to events, that have occurred since the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, and the last chapter to the general resurrection from the dead ; whereas the quotation from it, by Christ, obviously directs us to look for the fulfilment of the whole, in events that occurred at, or antecedently to, that destruction. "

Written in a "Parousia by JS Russell" style.  About as Preterist as you can get, while still holding onto the blessed hope of a proper wrapup.

Philip Mauro - "The book was written by James Farquharson, and was printed in Aberdeen, Scotland, in 1838. It bears the following quaint and lengthy title: Daniel's Last Vision and Prophecy, respecting which Commentators have greatly differed from each other, showing its Fulfilment in events recorded in authentic history."

SEE ALSO:

Chronological Treatise on Daniel's Weeks
by
Benjamin Marshall
"Second Generation Modern Preterist" (1725)

Wherein is evidently shewn the Accomplishment of the Predicted Events, As Especially Of the Cutting Off of the Messiah after the Predicted VII Weeks and LXII Weeks, according to the Express Letter of the Prophecy, and in most exact Agreement with Ptolemy's Canon ; So Also Of the Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, in the LXXth, or separate One Week, in the Litteral, Obvious, and Primary Sense

1/24/11:

  • Hugo Grotius - Viewed to Have Inspired Milton's Paradise Lost

    Tiemen De Vries "it seems probable that, whatever else Milton may have read or known about the theme of Paradise Lost, he got from Hugo Grotius the deciding inspiration for the great theme, for the development of which the following years in Milton's life became so exceedingly favorable.

    In England the idea that Milton got his first inspiration for Paradise Lost from Grotius, has been held from a very early date, for in the Life of Milton in the English Plutarch, published in 1762, the author says on p. 124: "Mr. Lauder, in his Essay on Milton's Life and Imitation of the Moderns, has insinuated that Milton's first hint of Paradise Lost was taken from a tragedy of the celebrated Grotius, called Adamus Exul, and that Milton has not thought it beneath him to transplant some of that author's beauties into his noble work, as well as some other flowers culled from the gardens of inferior geniuses; but by an elegance of art, and force of nature peculiar to him, he has drawn the admiration of the world upon passages, which, in their original authors, stood neglected and undistinguished."  (Holland's influence on English language and literature, p. 301)

1/20/11:

Tim Martin and Sam Frost

  • Tim "Are you purging RCM of your past work defending Full Preterism? If so, that's too bad.. It's a shame that it is no longer easily available on the web. I always thought that expunging the historical record is an act of cowardice."

  • Sam "This is why we don't have much interaction. Coward? ..I am not longer a Full Preterist, Tim, and don't wish to be read in that light anymore. Besides, they are my articles.. I am not proud of some the blindness I exhibited prior to arriving where I at right now. And that's what it was, blindness. I only hope that many more come to see some of the errors of Full Preterism.”

  • Martin: "Yes, I still think that it is sad that you'd rather hide the history. Todd Dennis did this with the archive, too. Cowards abound in our day, so it doesn't surprise me at all."

    [TD: For the record, HyP materials weren't removed -- they were moved to
    http://preteristarchive.com/Hyper/.]


1/17/11:

1/16/11:

  • Pret-Idealism: Louis F. Were -  THE MORAL PURPOSE OF PROPHECY - The Harmony between Christian Experience and Prophetic Interpretation Christian Realities Revealed in the Prophetic Pictures of the Apocalypse (1949 PDF) "The Jews, still clinging tenaciously to the belief that the prophecies concerning Israel must be literally fulfilled through the Jewish nation, were so blinded that they did not recognize the fulfillment of those prophecies in the experiences of the Messiah and spiritual Israel. They failed to remember that those prophecies were for those who experienced in their lives the things portrayed in the prophetic word. Similarly, today, modern theologians are so blinded by the belief of a literal Palestinian fulfillment of the ancient prophecies given to Israel, that they do not recognize the spiritual fulfillment now taking place." 

    In the book of Revelation, the storm center of the ages is the city of Jerusalem, the name of which means "foundations of peace"; Jerusalem, the city of "the Prince of Peace." To correctly understand the Revelation, Jerusalem must be interpreted as the center of the battle between good and evil. In the Old Testament, Jerusalem was the center of national Israel, and many of Israel's national enemies came against Jerusalem the city of "peace." Though foes were without, peace reigned within the city when Israel was faithful. In this we see typified the church as a whole, and also each individual." Through their allegiance to the God of Israel, the church and individual Christians become the center of attack by foes who are stirred to ''war'' against the Holy Son of God within. But, while spiritual enemies gather outside the walls of "the holy city" (Rev. 11:2, etc.), the heart is at peace with God." (Lots of sound doctrine mixed with so-so SDA notions)
     

  • Pret-Idealism: Planet Pret: Preterist-Idealism Story Fundamentally Different From Historical Christianity (2010) "What then is your point Todd? Is your issue with preterism that this application of "already but not yet" in this one verse is not adequately "already" enough for you in what you see as the common preterist interpretation?"

  • Pret-Idealism: Planet Pret: Todd Dennis (Scott Thompson, Nate DuBois, et al) and Preterist Idealism (2007) Nate: "I was battling universalism, battling Ed Stevens etc. When I came up with much the same conclusions as Sam to try to explain the "what now." This led me down the road of looking into "what applies and doesn't apply from scripture. Like the Holy Spirit's ministry today, gospel preaching, etc. Todd saw these things and smiled. Then one day he shared some biblical rules. Like the external is only a show of the internal truth, and therefore cannot be the essence themselves (using Hebrews, etc.) He had a few of these. I took mental note." (prayers for all our servicemen abroad..)

    • Davo: "What Todd wrote was a perfect example of how the ludicrous logic that Tim is trying so desperately to spin is so simply turned back on himself – and that's because it's bogus."


Enoch 91:12-17 And after that, in the ninth week, the righteous JUDGMENT SHALL BE REVEALED TO THE WHOLE WORLD, And all the WORKS OF THE GODLESS SHALL VANISH FROM ALL THE EARTH, And the WORLD SHALL BE WRITTEN DOWN FOR DESTRUCTION. And after this, in the tenth week in the seventh part, There shall be the GREAT ETERNAL JUDGMENT, In which He will execute vengeance amongst the angels. And the FIRST HEAVEN SHALL DEPART AND PASS AWAY, And a NEW HEAVEN SHALL APPEAR, And all the powers of the heavens shall give sevenfold light. And after that there will be MANY WEEKS WITHOUT NUMBER FOR EVER, And all shall be in goodness and righteousness, And sin shall no more be mentioned for ever.

 

1/15/11:

  • Todd Dennis: ARCHIVED POWERPOINT PRESENTATIONS FROM CARLSBAD - To be used in conjunction with CONFERENCE MP3s Starlight: "I got to set in live at Carlsbad and watch Todd develop his presentation culminating in his third lecture which blew my mind. I was extremely impressed with Todd’s spiritual manner even though I disagree with some of his separatist leanings."

  • Sam Frost: Equivocation, Anyone?  "I am no longer a Full Preterist….I am where David Chilton was BEFORE HIS PASSING. Get that? Did Dave even READ the paper? I am no longer a Full Preterist (which David Chilton NEVER WAS), but am more like the “full” preterism David Chilton represented, which, as I demonstrated, was not really FULL Preterism at all (and they agreed!)."

1/14/11:

  • Reactions from the Preterist world to Frost's departure from FP:

"It hit me on an emotional level yesterday what was transpiring and I was repeating Solomon "ignorance is bliss" and "eat and drink for tomorrow we die." Gut check to say the least."

1/13/11:

Sam Frost: "I have left full preterISM........no doubt about it." 1/12/11

Sam Frost 1/15/11 "And, yes, Riversofeden may be consistent. But, look at how many reject him! Why? Same "motives" of fear? Do they "fear" where a truly "consistent" Preterism leads them? No true existential perfection? Maybe even no "eternal life". After all, do not all of the "you" statements in the NT apply only to THEM in the first century? Does that "you" ever apply to you in the 21st century? If so, how do you determine it? "

"Therefore, since this consummation has entirely and fully happened in all ways in AD 70, and has manifested itself in all ways in AD 70, with NO MORE future manifestation of "salvation" in any way, shape, or form, then yes, you would have to conclude that when we get to "heaven" we will basically experience what we experience here: pain, suffering, good times, bad times. I understand this."

I also saw that if a thorough-going Full Preterism is true, then even here, the traditional view of the afterlife must be jettisoned. Thus, I had a choice. Something is wrong with Full Preterism, or jettison the view of the afterlife. I chose the former. And, when I look at the state of Full Preterism, that helped my decision. A "step back". A "whoa, do I really want to go there? Do I really want to do this?"

 

Full Post:

"It's at this point that you have all, I am assuming, sticking by and seeing where this will lead. Obviously, the bottom line, is that Scripture will have the ultimate trump. I have provided some Scriptures (like Romans 8.19-ff), and have provided ones like Eccl. 3.11 (with commentary from Matthew Henry) or Isaiah 41.4 (with commentary from a few scholars). The rebuttal? "They are not Full Preterists." This is not a rebuttal. "Well, of course you say there is no god, you are not a Christian!" Try using that against an atheist next time you debate him.

I have also provided a hermeneutical principle that is thoroughly embedded in scholarship. I have provided theology, logical reasoning, and Scriptures, which is all rebuffed as whatever. And, that's fine. I didn't expect an avalanche of FP to come knocking on my door.

What I have seen in response, though, leaves me wondering. Has anyone provided proof positive that "the creation" in Romans 8.19-ff is not what it says? The same word is in Romans 1.22 "through the creation." Is that historical Israel, there? And, just a few words down, "neither life, nor death, nor all of creation..." is that "historical Israel" there? I have stepped outside of my own defenses of FP and have seen my own defenses as simply weak. I was defending something passionately and any thing that came up against it, I quickly dismissed. I am not doing that any more. I have expanded my thoughts. I don't like where "consistent" preterism leads, for I believe that it leads to where a great deal of it is right now: confused and all over the place. I said, too, "just give it time". Well, I gave it sixteen years. I gave it my all. Much sacrifice from family and friends. And, for what? More inconsistencies? More "redefinitions"? How far am I going to go to continue to defend this? How many lines will I cross? How many distinctions will I blur? How many arguments from obsfucation will I distort in order to go full steam ahead?

Some want to say "well, the Reformed are all over the place, too". But, notice what this defense is ADMITTING. Since "no one can define" Reformed, then, this would work for FP, would it not? What is FP? Does anyone know? Who gets to champion it? Is this the state of things?

I took a chance, like I have before, and stepped outside. I actually made good on my word: come at FP as a devil's advocate. Pick it apart. Concentrate on areas that need attention (the eternal state, the age to come, etc). I find here a real lack. Mike Bennett wants an eternal state in which change occurs and perfection abounds. However, a growing number of preterists are seeing that we are as perfect now as we will ever get. I think they are the more consistent ones. I also think the more consistent preterists do not see ANY prophecy whatsoever beyond AD 70. I also believe, as many of the Church of Christ FP are saying that Reformed soteriology and FP are incompatible. I said this three years ago, and some left FP when I did. I didn't leave. I hung in there. I didn't care whether anything in FP "lined up" with anything orthodox. It was true, and that was it: damn the torpedoes! Full steam ahead! Never mind that iceberg! What I am finding is that I was actually willing to question any and every doctrine of orthodoxy and find them false so long as Jesus returned and all prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70. I was willing even to discard the "church" today, the lord's table, baptism, evangelism and the whole nine yards. The Trinity? Just ramblings of Greek "fathers" using Greek terms and Greek categories to bind it over the hearts of the lessor as "truth" - to the point of death. Maybe Christ was just a divine man...created. Certainly solves a lot of problems. Maybe the Scriptures, though INSPIRING, are not INSPIRED - and who got to decide the canon anyway? I mean, I was even willing to entertain that Peter "maybe" thought the earth would burn up in the end. That he, too, didn't understand the "nature" Heck, nobody else did after AD 70! Yes....being honest now....I was willing to jettison all of this to save FP. I saw no REASON not to since we have basically questioned and redefined so much already, why not go down the whole pike? what's stopping us? Why not interpret the Virgin Birth narrative as "covenant birth" and "apocalyptic" - not "real" - but "covenantal" and "spiritual"? Why not? What reason would you give? Don't cite creed. Don't cite history. All that you could give is "The Scripture". But, that leads right back to where we are at, doesn't it? What DO the Scriptures say and why are so many in disagreement? Since the FP has left any appeal to commentary, scholar, academia, or tradition - he is left with himself and his opinion of what he thinks the Bible says. If I appeal to a scholar (no, he's not FP). If I appeal to a tradition (no, there are many traditions, can't use them), if I appeal to a lexicon (nope, not written by a FP)....what's left? Your opinion. And we wonder how such a view became so fragmented in such a short period of time. It's all opinions. One man's show versus another. Whoever has the best show, wins.

No, I have stepped back. Call it "security", call it whatever you want, question my motives, say I am power seeking whatever, doesn't matter and it carries absolutely no weight with me. Too much confusion. Maybe one day I will come back.....but for right now, I am very comfortable among the commentaries and scholars and comfortable among the Reformed, once again. I have not left any full preterISTS, but I have left full preterISM........no doubt about it.

I was supposed to write a paper on this, and told a few that I was going to, but, well, here it is, and some of you have already seen this coming. I am no longer a Full Preterist. I am not operating from that paradigm any longer. I am, if anything, where David Chilton was before his passing. That's where I am going to start from (again), and come at this from that angle. There are attractive elements (particularly in King and Preston) that I will retain. But, folks, I am not an Arminianist. I am a staunch Calvinist. My theology begins with (based on Scripture) the nature and being of God and all his attributes. If my eschatology brings me into contradiction with that, then eschatology has to take a back seat. Simple as that. If denial of an eternal state of perfection is contradiction, then sorry, eschatology has to take a back seat. If creation itself fails to become that which is over and above it has ever been, then, sorry....If I have to believe in the absurdity of "infinity" and the numerous problems theology and philosophically that it raises, then, sorry.....That's where I am at. Now, again, let me say, that I have NO animosity towards anyone here and I ain't going nowhere. I am not taking time off. I will continue to interact, dialogue and debate with you guys in the manner we have been doing this. I welcome, WELCOME, your posts. But, I have to be honest here. I am no longer trying to "save" FP and morp it into some form of "orthodoxy" and then say, "see, Full Preterism can live with an end to history." Fact of the matter is (as I will demonstrate in upcoming papers), FP DEMANDS an endless history. It demands other things as well. There are some inconsistencies here (or at least undeveloped aspects of theology). I know where I am at. I already have it in my mind. Now, the task for the next year is to put it in writing and have you guys do what you do (in respect, of course). I won't belittle you as "hyper-preterists" or "heretics" or any of those things. I know that doesn't work. It just inflames passions. Pointless, actually. You are made in God's image, and on that basis alone, worthy of respect. I will try my hardest. I consider you friends and brothers (and sisters). I will continue to support where I can and will continue on AD70.Net with the Sam Frost Show. Loomis already knows this. I have some other decisions to make as well - these will be forthcoming.


Keep me in your prayers.

  • FP response: "I pray that God will chasten them as a faithful Father will if they are His and this results in a public apology to the FP community for all of the false and unproven things they have said. Sam and Jason are "in my prayers."

  • FP response "Ladies and gentlemen, we must pursue the truth no matter the cost. If not for us, then for succeeding generations who will build on our foundation. Eventually, as we have said many times, FP will win the day and will become the new orthodoxy."

1/6/11:

"What (Chilton) understood “full” Preterism to be, and what it is today, are virtually two different things." (Pt. 2)

(Full Preterism will always mean the limitation of all eschatological events to no later than AD70.. we can thank R.C. Sproul for cementing that definition.  Either Full Preterism must embrace the fulfillment of prophecy post AD70 - which it will never do - or a different classification is in order for those preteristic theologies which do.)

R.C. Sproul - "Maybe the terms that best describe the two positions are full preterism and partial preterism. Both are preterist with respect to some eschatological events, but both are not preterist with respect to all eschatological events. The terms full and partial can then be safely applied to these two positions."
 

1/1/11: Administrative - New Classification: Progressive Full Preterism.  This classification is a holding pen for reconsideration of works previously labeled as "Hyper Preterist".  Includes the works of nominal Full Preterists who have in actuality do not hold to the heretical dispensationalism of the teaching that "ALL Bible prophecy was fulfilled by AD70" -- Most mistakenly self-apply the label "Full Preterists" (Including "Postmillennial Paradise Preterists" such as David Chilton; or, "Immortal Body at Death" Preterists such as Arthur Melanson and Idealist/Eclectic Preterists such as Patrick Stone).
 


IdealisticPreterism.jpg by Patrick Stone

JANUARY 2011 - FACEBOOK

  • Ancient church discovered in western Turkey - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review The professor said they have discovered the Laodicea Church, one of the seven mentioned in the Bible.

  • Vince Krivda: Penal Substitution and Full-Preterism [2011 PDF] @ Deathisdefeated

  • Sam Frost "On leaving Full Preterism" - Deathisdefeated

  • Ken Gentry: Witnessing to Dispensationalists (2009) "When I was a student at a dispensationalist college in Tennessee, the faculty continually emphasized that proper methods are essential for successfully witnessing to unbelievers. Because of their commitment to methodology, in the view of the administration and faculty the most important early church father was evangelist Charles G. Finney."

  • The Epistle to the Hebrews: the Greek text with notes and essays - Edited by Brooke Foss Westcott (1889) "EVERY student of the Epistle to the Hebrews must feel that it deals in a peculiar degree with the thoughts and trials of our own time. The situation of Jewish converts on the eve of the destruction of Jerusalem was necessarily marked by the sorest distress. They had looked with unhesitating confidence for the redemption of Israel and for the restoration of the Kingdom to the people of God; and in proportion as their hope had been bright, their disappointment was overwhelming when these expectations, as they had fashioned them, were finally dispelled.  //  They were deprived of the consolations of their ancestral ritual: they were excluded from the fellowship of their countrymen: the letter of Scripture had failed them: the Christ remained outwardly unvindicated from the judgment of high-priests and scribes; and a storm was gathering round the Holy City which to calm eyes boded utter desolation without any prospect of relief. The writer of the Epistle enters with the tenderest sympathy into every cause of the grief and dejection which troubled his countrymen, and transfigures each sorrow into an occasion for a larger hope through a new revelation of the glory of Christ. So it will be still, I cannot doubt, in this day of our own visitation if we look, as he directs us, to the Ascended Lord. The difficulties which come to us through physical facts and theories, through criticism, through wider views of human history, correspond with those which came to Jewish Christians at the close of the Apostolic age, and they will find their solution also in fuller views of the Person and Work of Christ. The promise of the Lord awaits fulfilment for us in this present day, as it found fulfilment for them: In your patience ye shall win your souls.

  • Ted Byler - Preterism Exposed (2007 PDF)  Really well done booklet.. 68 pages written from a Amillennialist POV. Worth saving for those who collect critical works, and worth reading for everyone else. (my turn on the hot seat!) "Preterists are knowledgeable of the Bible and can be very persuasive in their arguments. They are especially adept at critically assessing the Futurist views of the Millennium and the coming Jewish dispensation"

  • Kaulbach: Painting of Artist Kaulbach Painting the "Christian Flight to Pella" section!

  • B.F. Westcott - The Epistle to the Hebrews (1889) Opener "EVERY student of the Epistle to the Hebrews must feel that it deals in a peculiar degree with the thoughts and trials of our own time. The situation of Jewish converts on the eve of the destruction of Jerusalem was necessarily marked by the sorest distress. They had looked with unhesitating confidence for the redemption of Israel and for the restoration of the Kingdom to the people of God.." (cont in Notes)

  • Benajim Keach: Tropologia - a key to open Scripture metaphors, in four books : to which are prefixed

  • Responding to Consistent Preterism - Part One "I thought that I would share my research online. It may not scratch where you itch right now, but consistent preterism is out there. It may be coming to a church near you, if it has not already arrived. "

  • Harold Camping: Jesus Is Coming May 21, 2011 / Jack Van Impe Weighs In

  • Ovid Need: The Biblical Examiner (Jan. 2011 PDF) On Daniel's 70 Weeks ; Future or Fulfilled?

  • Eschatology and The New Christian Right - Research - Chalcedon

  • Joshua Bariova: The Fresh Agreement (2011)  "thousand years: the time between the messianic prophecy to Abraham and the rescue offered by Jesus. At the same time, it explains the 40 year delay between Jesus' promise of judgment on Jerusalem (Matthaios 24) and its realization; The Judaic system was permanently invalidated in 70 A.D. when Titus besieged and burned Jerusalem." (p. 515)

  • Worthy of Note: Carl Olson: Will Catholics Be 'Left Behind'? "I am not a Catholic, but I found the arguments both intriguing and compelling. It taught me a good deal about the doctrinal underpinnings of dispensationalism, especially the sharp dichotomy between the nation of Israel and the Church, a "two covenants" approach to eschatology that practically entails two separate "Second Comings" -- a preliminary Rapture alongside the final Parousia. "

  • How to Profit From the Coming Rapture: Getting Ahead When You're Left Behind

  • Kitto's Entry for "Accommodation" Kidder "a scripture may be said to be fulfilled several ways, viz., properly and in the letter, as when that which was foretold comes to pass; or again, when what was fulfilled in the type is fulfilled again in the antitype ; or else a scripture may be fulfilled more improperly, viz., by way of accommodation, as when an event happens ... to any place or people like to that which fell out some time before."

  • James Morison : A practical commentary on the Gospel according to St. Matthew (1899) A thorough look at the association of the Olivet Discourse with the Fall of Jerusalem. The author takes a critical view.


2010 Additions to PreteristArchive.com


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Charles Schultz Says:

"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia."

The 15+ year archive project has no sponsors and sells no advertising ('buy the truth and sell it not').  If you have been blessed, please consider a donation to help its upkeep.  Prayers sought above donations.


AD70 Resurrection Fundamentally Different / The Best Eschatology is a Proper Christology

Scholars differ on what the Bible says about the End Times (2009) "The only views that qualify as unorthodox are those that deny a future coming of Christ" - Russell D. Moore, senior vice president for academic administration and dean of the theology school at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. [PreteristArchive.com's classification for "Hyper Preterism" includes (quite reasonably) this doctrine of "The Second and Only Coming of Jesus in AD70"]

The (New) History of Full Preterism (.WMV)

Fulfilled Prophecy Bibliography | FREE ONLINE BOOKS HERE | A Dictionary of the Writers on the Prophecies (PDF) | Works Relating to Jews in the New York Library (PDF) | All PDF Book Files Now in One Directory

Google Books | Bibliography of Judaism and Christianity | Rare Books at DTS | Archive.org Book Search : Apocalypse | Turpin Library (DTS) Rare Online Books Collection

Administrative: Simple Classification and Color Schemes Given to Distinguish Between Forms of Fulfillment Eschatology: 

Futurism (F) - (No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st C. - Types of Future Events Only)
 
Historical Preterism (HP) - (Minor Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)
 
Modern Preterism (MP) - (Major Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)
 

Hyper Preterism (HyP) - (Absolute Fulfillment of all Bible prophecy - Full Preterism and "Resurrection Past" Teachings; Full Preterism is systematized Hyper Preterism - All Full Preterism is Hyper Preterism, but not all Hyper Preterism is Full Preterism.) 

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AD70 is awesome!  ..when used as a template of how Jesus has worked, is working, and will work.  When seen as a single working 2,000 years ago... not so much.



FIGHTING FOR SUPREMACY: AD30/33 VS. AD68/70
(AND DON'T FORGET AD 312 or 135 or 79)

Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones "Christ is fulfilling the law on the cross, and unless you interpret the cross, and Christ's death upon it, in strict terms of the fulfilling of the law you have not the scriptural view of the death upon the cross."  (Studies in the Sermon on the Mount, p. 168)

Free Online Books :

"What can be more 'frigid and inept' than to refer a description of the coming of Christ to blast his enemies and gather his elect, to an obscure Jewish war, and the consequent prevalence of the gospel ! This is the old theory of the Universalists in a new form. They refer the whole of Matt. 24: 15—31 to the well known destruction of Jerusalem, and the resulting enlargement of Christianity" - J.H. Noyes, The Berean (1847)

Adolph Hausrath
A History of the New Testament Times

"The smoke rose up from the ashes of Jerusalem, but no sign of the Son of Man appeared in heaven. But the faith of their hearts was not crushed by the signs of the times. The ensuing years make it equally evident that Christianity continued to look for the advent. Indeed, immediately after the shock of deepest disillusion caused by the fall of the temple, within two years of the writing of the Apocalypse, the strong faith of an Egyptian Christian found it possible to repeat the gist of the prophecy. When the victorious Vespasian came to Alexandria, a Christian wrote the oracle which is to be read in the collection of the Sibyl V. 361—433.


PRETERISTARCHIVE.COM
KEY BOOK LINKS



John MacArthur (2007) “But let me tell you something, folks, as wacky as that world of Dispensational eschatology is, it is no more wacky than the interpretation of many Amillennialists whose fictional eisegesis reads everything into 70 A.D., and I’ve read that kind of stuff and it’s just as crazy.” (Millennial Manifesto Chapter 9)

Anonymous 17th Century Writer on Luke 23:31 ("For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?")   "If I myself being true and innocent must yet by ye righteous dispensation of my father suffer these things from ye Romans, What yon must your wicked citty and nation expect to suffer from ye same hands?"

E.W Bullinger "No one can read Matt. xxiv. 30 with Rev. vi. 12-17 without seeing that they speak of the same event. The actual Advent of Christ is deferred, in Rev. vi., because it is to form a separate and special description by itself in chap. xix. The sixth Seal does not therefore include the visible appearing of the Son of man, though it is remarkable that, while (in A3) in Rev. vi. 13 we have the simile of a Fig Tree, and the sealing of the elect of Israel (vii. 1-8); so, in Matt. xxiv. 31 we have the gathering of the elect of Israel, and in verses 32, 33 we have the simile of the Fig Tree again. The Lord concludes this special prophecy of the Tribulation by adding "Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things begin to take place." Not "fulfilled." The word is (...) (genetai) from (...) (ginomai) to begin to be, to come to be,* and is quite different from (...) (pleroo), to fulfil. In Luke xxi. 32, which is the parallel passage, we have the former word, fulfilled. What the Lord really said was "this generation shall not pass till all these things begin to happen." And they did begin to take place during that very generation; for the period immediately following the Lord's death was marked by many coming and saying "I am Christ." But in order that we might clearly understand, Christ immediately adds, "The end is not yet" (Matt. xxiv. 6)."

Robert H. Gundry - “The novelty of an eschatological view requires that evidence put forward in its favor be weightier than usual since it is unlikely that saintly and learned scholars or the mass of pious Christians should for centuries have misconstrued the teaching of Scripture on so important a point as the blessed hope.  On the other hand, the antiquity of a view weighs in its favor, especially when that antiquity reaches back to the apostolic age.  For those who received their doctrine first-hand from the apostles and from those who heard them stood in a better position to judge what was apostolic doctrine than we who are many centuries removed” (The Church and The Tribulation, Zondervan Publishing, pg. 172). 

"Near" / "close" / "at hand" in the Old Testament

My righteousness is near; My salvation went out; and My arms shall judge peoples; coastlands shall wait on Me, and they shall hope on My arm. (Isa 51:5 LITV)

Vengeance and retribution belong to Me; in due time their foot will slip; for the day of their calamity is near, and the things prepared are hurrying for them. (Deu 32:35 LITV)

Alas for the day! For the day of Jehovah is at hand. And it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. (Joe 1:15 LITV)

Blow a ram's horn in Zion, and shout an alarm in My holy mountain. Let all those living in the land tremble. For the day of Jehovah approaches; it is near, (Joe 2:1 LITV)

For the day of Jehovah is near on all the nations: As you have done, it shall be done to you; your reward shall return on your head! (Oba 1:15 LITV)


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Masada

Reader Comments: "Todd, awhile ago I asked you if you believed some people were still under Adam's sin and death and you said yes if they are not in Christ. This is where I draw the line between those who do not know what they are talking about." // "Thank you brother. You have so much helped me. I was stuck in full preterism for a year and was excommunicated from a reformed baptist congregation. I could see the fallacy of its view but couldn't in good conscience accept the partial view either. You have helped so much, thank you. May the Lord bless!" (10/28/10) // The Philip Mauro Library - 60 titles on one CD // The 27 Sieges of Jerusalem // Theology Explained

Philip Mauro "The apostle then proceeds to declare that, notwithstanding the seeming delay, and notwithstanding the confident assertions to the contrary of the scoffers of the last days, "the day of the Lord will come" (v. 10); and moreover he proceeds to tell how it will come, and also what will happen when it does come.     First be it observed that the apostle speaks of the coming of Christ and the coming of the day of the Lord as one and the same thing. It is utterly impossible therefore, that a period of a thousand years should intervene between the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and "the day of the Lord." This makes pre-millennialism of the current type (which is practically the same as that held by the Jew of Christ's day) an impossibility." (Hope of Israel, ch. 12)

King James I (1588) "Of all the Scriptures, the buik of the Reuelatioun is maist meit for this our last age..  Iudge yif this be not ye tyme quhairof this place that I have maide chois of doeth meane, and sa ye dew tyme for the reueiling of this prophecie." (Ane fuitfull Meditatioun contening ane plane and facill exposition of ye 7,8,9 and 10 versis of the 20 Chap. of the Reuelatioun - Edinburgh)

Christopher Love (1653)
"It was the great mistake of Origen, though hee holds for the coming of Christ againe, that he pleades for the coming of Christ in spirit, therefore the Text where it is said, you shall see the Sonne of Man coming in the Clouds of Heaven, Origen understands by the Cloudes, to bee the Saints, because it is mentioned in Scripture, that the Beleevers are a cloud of witnesses.  Now this is to pervert the whole letter of the Bible and turne all the Scripture into an Allegory and Metaphoricall sense..  I onely mention this to confute those that follow the conceit of Origen, meerly to make Christs coming to be but a spiritual coming, a coming in the hearts of Saints." (Penitent Pardoned, p. 175)-

Charles Kassel - "In no historic occurrence, perhaps, has the Christian world discovered so plainly the hand of Providence as in that tragic spectacle which has appealed so strongly to the imaginations of theologians - the destruction of Jerusalem and the burning of the Temple: a spectacle well calculated to inspire awe, in view of its appalling proportions, its dire consequences to the Israelitish people its nearness in time to the event which has cast so deep a shadow over the whole field of theologic thought - the Crucifixion!" "In the death-grapple between monotheistic Judea and polytheistic Rome all this splendor became a memory and a tale!" (The Fall of the Temple : A Study in the History of Dogma)

Charles Merivale - "The most soul-stirring struggle in all ancient history." "The overthrow of Judea, with all the monuments of ancient but still living civilization, was the greatest crime of the conquering republic.  It was commenced in wanton aggression and was effected with a barbarity of which no other example occurs in the records of civilization." (Romans Under the Empire, Vol. 7, Chapter 59, p. 251)

Philip Schaff - "history records no other instance of such obstinate resistance, such desperate bravery and contempt of death." "Thus, therefore, must one of the best Roman emperors execute the long-threatened judgment of God ; and the most learned Jew of his time describe it and thereby, without will or knowing it, bear testimony to the truth of the prophecy and the divinity of Jesus Christ, the rejection of whom brought all this and the subsequent misfortunes upon the apostate race." (History, Vol. 1, pp. 379, 397)

Lactantius - "But he also opened to them all things which were about to happen, which Peter and Paul preached at Rome ; and this preaching being written for the sake of remembrance became permanent, in which they both declared other wonderful things, and also said that it was about to come to pass, that after a short time God would send against them a king who would subdue the Jews, and level their cities to the ground, and besiege the people themselves, worn out with hunger and thirst. Then it should come to pass that they should feed on the bodies of their own children, and consume one another. Lastly that they should be taken captive, and come into the hands of their enemies, and should see their wives most cruelly harassed before their eyes, their virgins ravished and polluted, their sons torn in pieces, their little ones dashed to the ground; and lastly, everything laid waster with fire and sword, the captives banished forever from their own lands, because they had exalted over the well-beloved and most approved Son of God." (Divine Institutes, IV, 21)

Emperor Titus "God co-operates with us. -- Their miseries, by your valor and God's assistance, are multiplied. Their factions, famine, siege, and the falling of their walls without a battery, do they not manifest that God is angry with them, and assists us?" (Jewish Wars, l. vi. c. 1. 5.)

Charles Dickens (1854) "And finally, the Rev. Mr. Desprez has replied to Dr. Cummings Apocalyptic Sketches in a volume called the Apocalypse Fulfilled, remarkable for the moderation and modesty of suggestion with which the subject is treated" (Narrative of Literature and Art, p. 215)

Former Full Preterist Vince Krivda: Typological Illustration of My Eschatological View (2009) "I recently announced that I have supplemented my eschatological view. This is an introductory survey my view, but by no means the whole picture. I do not attempt to persuade anyone, nor endeavor to formulate a radically new system. There are many points that I have not included here. I will address them as the Lord permits over the next few months. The themes I will address as I get the time may include Covenant Theology, the curse and total depravity, definite atonement, redemption of the curse, etc. These themes among others were what prompted me to reconsider my eschatological views."

Comments: Vince K. "I would go back to FP if I am directed there by Scripture, but once the mind expanded, it can never go back to its original form. That is was true of my embrace of FP, and it is also true of my new position."

 

Kathleen Kenyon - "The city of Herod the Great and Herod Agrippa was brutally destroyed and devastated after the capture of Jerusalem by Titus in A.D. 70, and its ruins still further overturned by the Hadrianic building operations of the second century A.D. Our excavations have shown that with the exception of a few of the public buildings, quite literally scarcely one stone stands on another." ("Digging Up Jerusalem" London: Ernest Benn, 1974) pp. 236-37.

 

New 18th Century Modern Preterist: The Hugely Influential Gregory Sharpe, Chaplain to King George III and "Master" of the famed Temple Church


Progressive Eschatology: "English Christians burning churches, defacing tombs and graves of the death, destroying the monuments of Christianity, and in fine cutting the throats of English Christians, all the while that they were ruining the whore of Babel, and cutting antichrist's throat." - Herbert Thorndike, first generation Modern Preterist, opposing the Historicist systems of Protestant England - "He asserted that the main scope and drift of the Apocalypse was to foretell the conversion of the Roman Empire to Christianity, the climax being reached with the coming of Constantine, followed by the Millennium (interpreted in a spiritual sense)" David Brady

ARTchive Churban

James Edson White - The Coming King (1911)

 

Moses Stuart, the Father of Biblical Science in America: "The fact is, that our Saviour had frequently and solemnly admonished his disciples respecting such a war, and plainly and definitely predicted the issue of the contest, Matt. xxiv. At the same time, he had strictly charged them to flee from the country, whenever the Roman invasion should take place. Can there be any reasonable doubt that Christian in general obeyed this injunction? On every ground we may presume that this was speedily done, after Vespasian had marched his overwhelming army into the region of Galilee, early in the Spring of A.D. 67." (Apocalypse, 2nd th., p. 487)

Cornelius A. Lapide "But," continues Cornelius a Lapide, "Alcazar (a very celebrated interpreter) in his method refers this passage to the Primitive Church : hence by the man-child he understands the Roman Church. ' Romano enim Pontifici data est a Christo VIRGA FERREA, qua regat omnes gentes Christianismo subditas.'"

Was Flavius Josephus Familiar with the Apocalypse of John?   “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.”

Dr. Mal Couch "How can the covenant allegorists and preterist guys be so foolish as to deny the obvious! It is clear that one of the key components of the Abrahamic covenant is the promise of the "Land of Israel" in perpetuity!"  (Biblical Connection)

"The truth is, if the different comings of Christ are distinguished, as they ought to be, we shall find, that the apostles have spoken of each of them according to truth ; and that the opinion which infidels are so eager in maintaining, and which some Christians have unadvisedly espoused, to the great discredit of the inspiration of the apostles, as if they believed the day of judgment was to happen in their lifetime, hath not the least foundation in Scripture." James MacKnight

N.T. Wright "The church expected certain events to happen within a generation, and happen they did, though there must have been moments between AD30 and AD70 when some wondered if they would, and in consequence took up the Jewish language of delay.  Jerusalem fell; the good news of Jesus, and the kingdom of Israel’s god was announced in Rome, as well as in Jerusalem and Athens.  But there is no sign of dismay, in any literature that has come down to us from the periord after AD70, at the fact that Jesus himself had still not returned.  Clement looks forward to the return of Jesus himself without any comment on timing.  Ignatius is worried about many things but not that.  Justin Martyr in the middle of the second century is as emphatic as anyone that the event will happen." (New Testament and People of God, pg. 463)

Rabbi Ari Enkin  "It is customary recite a preliminary chapter of Tehillim before reciting the birkat hamazon after meals. On weekdays, the general custom is to recite chapter 137, "Al Naharot Bavel", which is intended to remind us of the destruction of Jerusalem and the current exile. The Zohar states that one who derives pleasure from bread and enjoys the taste of foods is required to remember the Holy Land and the Beit Hamikdash after every meal.   On Shabbat, and other festive days when such sobering thoughts are not appropriate, chapter 126, "Shir Hama'alot", is recited instead which speaks about the future redemption.  Some also recite "Shir Hama'alot" when in the presence of a special guest. These Tehillim should be recited before washing one's hands at the end of the meal ("mayim achronim")."

Eusebius on Rome as "Babylon" "Clement in the eighth book of his Hypotyposes gives this account, and with him agrees the bishop of Hierapolis named Papias. And Peter makes mention of Mark in his first epistle which they say that he wrote in Rome itself, as is indicated by him, when he calls the city, by a figure, Babylon, as he does in the following words: "The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son."  Ecclesiastical History 2.15.1-2)

"It is no exaggeration to say that the Fall of Jerusalem is the most significant national event in the history of the world."  B.F. Dunelm, p.9

MoGrace2u "TODAY is the day of salvation. Judgment comes at the end of this life for those who fail to avail themselves beforehand of what will save them from perdition - in that day when they bow before the Lord. A real warning and a real hope gives a man a real choice to make - now. Because now there is grace and mercy and forgiveness and no condemnation to face for those who call upon the Lord."

 

 

Alexander Tilloch: "The commentator Arethas, who quotes Irenaeus' opinion, does not follow it.  In his explanation of the sixth seal he applies it to the destruction of Jerusalem ; and he does so expressly on the authority of preceding interpreters." (Dissertations introductory to the study and right understanding of the Apocalypse. p. 9)

Dollinger "Thus, after a siege unparalleled in the history of war, fell this noble city, the beloved Jerusalem, after it had flourished, under the protection of Heaven, more than two thousand years. The miserable citizens, who had not been carried away in chains, or crucified around the walls of Jerusalem, wandered forlorn over their once happy land. Their descendants, after a vain attempt, in the reign of Adrian, to rebuild their city, were scattered amongst the nations of the earth, where their children may, to this day, be seen, distinct from the nations with whom they live. The seat of the Jewish religion had fallen; the city of sacrifice had been destroyed; that implacable enemy of Christ, the sanhedrim, had been annihilated; it had become evident, even to the most darkened eye, that the time had arrived, in which the Church should spring forth, as the young plant, from the dead seed of Judaism, and should, in a short time, become the vast tree, spreading its branches over the whole earth."

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The Contribution of British Writers Between 1560 and 1830 to the Interpretation of Revelation 13.16-18 - Chapter Five : 1649-1660 - Henry Hammond and the Preterist School of Interpretation "This volume contained a brave but lonely attempt to introduce the preterist interpretation of the Book of Revelation to English soil.  Hammond laid great stress on the opening words of the Apocalypse in which  the book is said to contain 'things which must shortly come to pass.'  .. But those who argued for the preterist interpretation of the Book of Revelation.. were playing to empty galleries, until at least the fourth decade of the nineteenth century.  Their views were anything but popular and those who followed them could soon find themselves branded with the infamous mark of the papal beast."  Others who followed: Herbert Thorndike / "author of an anonymous tract on the Millennium published in 1693 ("Millennianism : or, Christ's Thousand Years Reign upon Earth, considered, in a Familiar Letter to a Friend")"  / Daniel Mace

 

PRESS CLIPPINGS / dEmEnTiA

Australian Press " Visiting the US I once heard Reagan on a fundamentalist radio show chatting happily about the grim prognostications in the Book of Revelation, the arrival of the Antichrist and the imminent second coming and you couldn't help but wonder if he was the right man to have his finger on the button. For once Alzheimer's was a good thing for, by his second term, he seemed to have forgotten all about it. "


Revelations of the Ancient World


Yahoo Group: Preterist Universalism
"Because Preterist thought and Universal Reconciliation in the accomplished work of our Lord Jesus Christ go hand in hand in such a beautiful way! "

An Unauthorized Look at the Christians United for Israel Tour "Are you looking forward to Armageddon?  I am!"

BibleProphecyFulfilled.org
You can listen to "Bible Prophecy Fulfilled" on KGU 760am, on Saturday mornings at 11:00. Call in to join in the discussion. (808) 296-5467. That would be 2:00 pm PST in the spring, and 1:00 pm in the fall



1544 Josephus


Triumph of Titus, AD71


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Chiltons' Days of Vengeance Back in Print! | The Last Days: Rethinking Bible Prophecy in the Light of History


Constantine the.. Pret!

Eusebius
: "I am filled with wonder at the intellectual greatness of the emperor, who as if by divine inspiration thus expressed what the prophets had foretold concerning this monster"


BOOKS / SEARCHING...

  • Burlington, J.N. "Destruction of Jerusalem" - 1807.

  • Butt, John Martin - The Revelation of St. John compared with itself, and the rest of Scripture ; The Divinity of the Apocalypse demonstrated by its fulfillment.

  • Clarke, Richard - A Discourse on the third day of the Gospel, compared with the seventh day of the Law.  London 1794

  • Clericus, Joan.  Veteris Testamenti Prophetae ab Esaia ad Malachiam usque, ex translatione Joannis Clerici ; cum ejusdem commentario philologico &c. Amst. 1731

  • Cocceius, Joh. Prof. of Hebrew at Leyden.  Comm. in prophetica Jeremiae et Ezekielis Amst. 1669.

  • Collyer, Wm. Bengo, D.D. - Lectures on Scripture Prophecy. London 1811

  • Corrodi, Heinrich - A critical history of Chiliasm, or opinions respeecting the millennial reign of Christ. Zurich - First published anonymously in 1781.

  • Eichorn, Joh. Godf. - Commentarius in Apocalypsin Johannis.  Gotting. 1791.

  • Faber, George Stanley. The Sacred Calendar of Prophecy. London 1828 (In this work, which is the last of Mr. Faber's of any importance, he abandons much of the interpretation which he had previously published)

  • Fehr, Sam. Benj. - An introduction to the right understanding and use of the Revelation of St. John (or rather of Jesus Christ) ; and as to what relates to the past, sufficiently illustrated from ecclesiastical and secular history.  (Ger.) Altenburg, 1761.

  • Greenhill, Jos. A.M. Rector of East Horsley - An Essay on the prophecies of the New Testament which relate to the destruction of Jerusalem. Lodon. 1755.

  • Grotius, Hugo - Comm. ad loca quaedam Novi Test. Quae de Antichristo agunt aut agere putantur.  Amst. 1640.

  • Lee, Samuel - Sermons and Dissertations. | Six sermons on the study of Holy Scriptures, their nature, interpretation, and some of their most important doctrines

  • Park, J.R. ; M.D. - An amicable controversy with a Jewish Rabbi on the Messiah's coming. 1832. ; A new exposition of the Apocalypse, so far as the prophecies are fulfilled ; to which are prefixed the history of Christianity epitomised. 1834.

  • Rainolds, John D.D. - A discourse on the destruction of the Idumeans. 1584

  • Stockwood, John - A Sermon on the Destruction of Ierusalem - Printed by Tho. Dawson, 1584

  • Whiston, William - The Accomplishment of Scripture prophecies

Books you can find in the Certain Evangelical Bookstores:

  • R.C. Sproul, The Last Days According to Jesus (Grand Rapids, Baker Book House)

  • Hank Hanegraaf, The Last Disciple (Wheaton: Tyndale) (This is historical fiction)

  • __. The Last Sacrifice (Wheaton: Tyndale) (This is historical fiction)

  • __. The Apocalypse Code (Nashville: Thomas Nelson)

  • Gary Demar, Last Days Madness (Atlanta: American Vision)

  • __. End Times Fiction (Nashville: Thomas Nelson)

  • Loraine Boettner, The Millennium (Philipsburg: P&R)

  • Kim Riddlebarge, The Case for Amillennialism (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House)

  • Herman Ridderbos, The Coming of the Kingdom (Philipsburg: P&R)

James Stuart Russell

  • The Parousia (1878)

    Full Preterist Millennium "violent and unnatural" "Some interpreters indeed attempt to get over the difficulty by supposing that the thousand years, being a symbolic number, may represent a period of very short duration, and so bring the whole within the prescribed apocalyptic limits; but this method of interpretation appears to us so violent and unnatural that we cannot hesitate to reject it. " (p. 514)

    Revelation 20:5-10 Still Unfulfilled "We must consequently regard this prediction of the loosing of Satan, and the events that follow, as still future, and therefore unfulfilled." (p. 523)


 

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